Thursday, April 16, 2009

Re: [BLUG] Bloomington Lan party April 18th @ Fountain Squre

On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 11:58:36AM -0400, Simón Ruiz wrote:

> > [...] They're all basically the same. [...] They teach their audience
> > that what they change is enough... but to me, it is not.
>
> Mmmmm....well, couldn't the same be said about, say, Linux distros?

You could definitely say the same about Linux distros. Some entire Linux
distros could just as well be a small set of theme packages for other
distros.

The big thing I like about Ubuntu is the fixed release schedule, and
the available set of packages as wide as Debian. That and it does
have a decent package management system. I really like decent package
management systems.

> Choice has its ups and downs.

It is easy to get overwhelmed with choices, too.

> If you wrote an ncurses front-end to FreeCiv, I would totally play that!

Hmm... I'll have to put it on my list of projects. :)

I know it has a flexible interface setup, as there are multiple
interfaces available. Perhaps I should take a look at it to see how easy
it would be...

> I must confess that I play the commercial, proprietary Civ IV more
> than FreeCiv, though.

I understand. I rarely play either one at this point, primarily due to
the insane amount of time I've been known to dump in to it in the past.

> It makes me feel sad and conflicted, but I've yet to see an
> open-source game project that brings the sort of unified vision and
> cohesion of art assets, audio, storyline, gameplay etc. that a good
> (in the sense of capability, no moral connotations) proprietary game
> company can.

Yeah, I hear you there.

I make do by discounting all the art and audio. This leaves just
storyline and gameplay. The 3D models, art, music and sound effects
are all developer intensive. If you cut them out you need far fewer
developers -- however you still need a good design.

> > However, I believe that abstraction is a valued part of gaming. I value
> > putting things back in to the imagination and simplifying the playing
> > pieces. I also acknowledge that I am a minority.
>
> Psh, I bet you still read *books*! ;-)

Recently I've been really enjoying podiobooks.com. I can listen to a
story while working on my projects.

> What makes a story worth absorbing is the story itself, not the media
> it's presented in. I *love* books, and would say that they're better
> than movies. On the other hand, sometimes I'd rather see a movie.
> Sometimes, though not often, the movie even helps me to appreciate
> aspects of the book that I hadn't noticed before.

I find few movies that are actually on par with the books. That's a
given, though. The media are significantly different, what works well
for one media works poorly for the other.

Interestingly, even written books and audio dramas are fairly
significantly different media. I was listening to the audio drama
'Space Casey', and the author mentioned that some of her choices were
specifically made for her media.

> What makes a game worth playing is the fun, not the flash. I sometimes
> want the flash, though. And sometimes, though not often, well-done
> flash can add to a game.

Yeah, it can add to the game. I admit that. Some games do really well
with the added flash. Some of the horror console games, in particular,
really come off creepy due to their flash.

There are times when you just want the flash. I admit that, too.
Sometimes you feel like smashing and killing things. In these cases,
graphics are nice, and you're frequently willing to forgo some of the
finer details in the plot and game design.

My gripe is just that it would be a lot easier to focus on game play,
plot, and design if people stopped focusing so exclusively on the
pictures and audio.

> For example, in Civ IV (it's the only 3-d game I play regularly, sorry
> for beating it to death), the flash really does add a LOT to the game
> experience in terms of usability. Civ-type games can become insanely
> huge and complex, in terms of the information you have to manage and
> juggle in your brain, so any added usability is awesome. I'd say the
> Civ IV flash helped me to appreciate aspects of the game that I didn't
> notice in the earlier (and alternative) 2-d incarnations.

While I played Civ IV, I didn't really notice that the 3D aspects played
any part. There were some cut scenes here and there, but... I just
didn't notice it too much.

Cheers,

--
Steven Black <blacks@indiana.edu> / KeyID: 8596FA8E
Fingerprint: 108C 089C EFA4 832C BF07 78C2 DE71 5433 8596 FA8E

Re: [BLUG] Schedule for Saturday's LAN Party (LOOSE)

Ack. I won't be able to make it until noon. I'll still be up for staying
through the end, though.
-Barry

Mark Krenz wrote:
> This is a very loose schedule for what we can do at Saturday's LAN
> Party. Look it over, perhaps if you weren't thinking of going, you'll
> see something here that will change your mind.
>
> This schedule is open for comments of course. And of course if you
> want to just hang out and play or do whatever you want, that's fine too.
> It would help if people could install some of these games and get them
> working prior to showing up.
>
> 9am - I'll be in the office setting some things up
>
> 10am - Computer setup, get aquinted
>
> 10:30 - Game: The Mana World (2D Open Source MMORPG)
> Game: Warsow (3D FPS with cell like graphics)
>
> noon - Lunchtime, bring in pizza, drinks
> Game: Armagetron (3D multiplayer Tron-like lightcycles game)
> Game: Scorched 3D (3d cannon game)
>
> 1:00 - Game: Gate 88 (2d, looks interesting RTS)
> Also, a short tour of Suso office & Server room and how Suso uses
> Linux and open source software.
>
> 2:00 - Game: BZFlag (3D tank multiplayer game)
> Game: World of Padman (3D FPS with good maps and graphics)
>
> 3:00 - Blender 3D demonstration (3d modeling, rendering and animation)
> Game: Globulation 2
>
> 4:00 - Share Linux knowledge, config files, etc.
> Game: OpenTTD (Transport tycoon like that claims to be network multiplayer)
>
> 5:30 - Dinnertime, more pizza or maybe people can come and go. We can
> raid Stephano's in some flash mob or something.
> Game: Nexiuz (3D FPS, probably the best OSS one)
> Game: Torcs (3D Car racing)
>
> 7:00 - Wine demonstration (World of Warcraft, Microsoft Office,
> FruityLoops, SimCity 4, Stair/Truck Dismount, etc.)
> Game: Daimonin (2d isometric MMORPG)
>
> 8:30 - Game: X-moto contest? (Fun 2D motorcycle course game)
> Game: World of Goo demo
>
> 9:00 - Game: The Ur-Quan Masters (If you've ever played Star Control,
> you'll understand what fun this game is)
> Game: Cave Story (Single player platform game, but people claim it is really fun)
>
> 10:00 - Game: Warzone 2100 (network multiplayer RTS)
> Game: Beyond the Red Line (3D Space combat game that looks awesome)
> http://www.youtube.com/BeyondtheRedLine
> 11:00 ??? Rehash some other previously played games or something.
>
> midnight - depending on the mood of everyone, either pack stuff up or
> keep playing until 1 or so.
>
>
>

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Re: [BLUG] Bloomington Lan party April 18th @ Fountain Squre

On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 5:11 PM, Steven Black <blacks@indiana.edu> wrote:
> I started playing ASCII-based games back when they would actually look
> better than their 4 color 320x200 graphics counter-parts.
>
> What annoys me is that a lot of games are 3D just because they think
> that automatically makes them better. The game play will either suck,
> or be almost identical to half-a-dozen other games, just with different
> graphics and different music.

I *think* I agree with you here.

While I enjoy a well-done game that uses 3-D, in the now immortal
words: "You can put lipstick on a pig..."

> First-person shooters are the culmination of this. They're all basically
> the same. The only thing different between the vast majority is the
> graphics, music, and perhaps the map. (Oh, wait, sometimes 'you' are
> actually a vehicle, and not a person.) They teach their audience that
> what they change is enough... but to me, it is not.

Mmmmm....well, couldn't the same be said about, say, Linux distros?

Choice has its ups and downs.

> I do enjoy some turn-based and real-time strategy games. They, too, are
> almost the same with different graphics and music. I acknowledge that.
> At some point, I would love to do an ASCII-based turn-based strategy
> game.

If you wrote an ncurses front-end to FreeCiv, I would totally play that!

I must confess that I play the commercial, proprietary Civ IV more
than FreeCiv, though.

Civ IV is 3-D but the 3-Dness feels like a thin, flashy (and
admittedly slower than I'd like) interface built over a solid game
that really does add a whole new dimension to the game experience (not
to actual play), rather than as the main focus with a crappy game
constructed underneath to prop it up.

It makes me feel sad and conflicted, but I've yet to see an
open-source game project that brings the sort of unified vision and
cohesion of art assets, audio, storyline, gameplay etc. that a good
(in the sense of capability, no moral connotations) proprietary game
company can.

Not to mention Leonard Nimoy.

(SIDEBAR: I've got Civ IV running under Crossover which I got when
they made it free for a day. The only thing that really sucks is that
it doesn't detect the game media to verify that I have a legitimate
copy. I had to go find a no-cd crack to apply to a game I paid money
for, and I cannot upgrade and benefit from *any* of the bug fixes and
such. I used to have an entire Windows install dedicated to this game;
I just got tired of shutting down in order to boot into Windows to
play my game, then shutting down in order to boot back into Ubuntu to
do anything else so I just stopped playing the game until I decided to
give the Crossover stuff a shot.)

> However, I believe that abstraction is a valued part of gaming. I value
> putting things back in to the imagination and simplifying the playing
> pieces. I also acknowledge that I am a minority.

Psh, I bet you still read *books*! ;-)

While I agree with your points, I don't declare a preference one way
or the other.

What makes a story worth absorbing is the story itself, not the media
it's presented in. I *love* books, and would say that they're better
than movies. On the other hand, sometimes I'd rather see a movie.
Sometimes, though not often, the movie even helps me to appreciate
aspects of the book that I hadn't noticed before.

What makes a game worth playing is the fun, not the flash. I sometimes
want the flash, though. And sometimes, though not often, well-done
flash can add to a game.

For example, in Civ IV (it's the only 3-d game I play regularly, sorry
for beating it to death), the flash really does add a LOT to the game
experience in terms of usability. Civ-type games can become insanely
huge and complex, in terms of the information you have to manage and
juggle in your brain, so any added usability is awesome. I'd say the
Civ IV flash helped me to appreciate aspects of the game that I didn't
notice in the earlier (and alternative) 2-d incarnations.

> --
> Steven Black <blacks@indiana.edu> / KeyID: 8596FA8E
> Fingerprint: 108C 089C EFA4 832C BF07  78C2 DE71 5433 8596 FA8E

--
Simón Ruiz

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug