Wednesday, April 14, 2010

Re: [BLUG] help desperately needed for wireless on Debian

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:39 PM, Mark Warner <mhwarner@gmail.com> wrote:
> Your experience is different than mine.

Maybe I have it backwards.

I really thought I used to have an wlan entry in
/etc/networks/interfaces and when my driver started using eth1 instead
I lost my wifi networking. (I had to create an interfaces file entry
for eth1.) Unfortunately that laptop is in the process of being
replaced, so I can't just check.

Of course, the wifi chipset in that laptop worked via the command-line
but none of the GUI tools saw it properly for several releases. I
think the device name changed to eth1 when the GUI stuff started
working. If I'm remembering it backwards, it would explain things if
the GUI tools were looking for 'wlan' devices by name...

In any case, the fact that any two drivers use the same device name is
a feature of Linux. In many UNIX-like environments the device names
are different for different drivers. It is possible (probably, even)
the change in device name only happened for my particular driver.
Fortunately there are good tools to tell you what names the system
sees in case it changes the names again...

Cheers,
Steven Black
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Re: [BLUG] help desperately needed for wireless on Debian

I am running kubuntu 10.04 BETA2 right now, and my wireless NIC is called WLAN0. I do recall seeing a Wireless NIC called ethX in gentoo a few years back ...


On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:22:24PM -0400, Steven Black wrote:
> The wlan0 vs eth[0-9] thing varies by kernel release as nearly as I
> can tell. I think they're mostly normalizing the kernel names at this
> point, and the newer kernels I've used all used the eth name instead
> of wlan. I've not seen wlan used for a year or more in the Ubuntu
> world.
>
> Wireless networking is tricky in any Linux distro -- in part because
> of manufacturers, and in part due to the FCC.
>
> ifconfig <no options> will show you all your ethernet devices.
>
> iwconfig <no options> will note all the ethernet devices with wireless
> capabilities.
>
> Sometimes, depending on the software you have installed, these lists
> will include things other than real physical devices.
>
> In this case SimplyMEPIS would have exactly the same problems. This is
> a Linux kernel issue and not a distro issue. As near as I can tell
> from my research, Broadcom -- the chipmaker -- does not allow any
> Linux distro to ship with their firmware. Of course, this may be
> different for distros willing to pay...
>
> Cheers,
> Steven Black
>
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:14 PM, Mark Warner <mhwarner@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I think you need to be using wlan0 or similar rather than eth2.
> >
> > FWIW, straight Debian is a PITA to configure wireless on. I prefer the
> > Debian stable derivative SimplyMEPIS, that has all the desktop
> > enhancements baked in. Life's too short.
> >
> > MEPIS is KDE. If you prefer Gnome, Ubuntu or Mint would good alternatives.
> >
> > --
> > Mark Warner
> > MEPIS Linux
> > Registered Linux User #415318
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
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Re: [BLUG] help desperately needed for wireless on Debian

Your experience is different than mine.

[root@mepis85dell mark]# uname -a
Linux mepis85dell 2.6.32-1-mepis-smp #1 SMP PREEMPT Mon Mar 15 18:52:01
EDT 2010 i686 GNU/Linux
[root@mepis85dell mark]# iwconfig
lo no wireless extensions.

eth0 no wireless extensions.

wlan0 IEEE 802.11b ESSID:"nexdoor"
Mode:Managed Frequency:2.412 GHz Access Point:
00:24:B2:07:74:A4
Bit Rate=1 Mb/s Tx-Power=27 dBm
Retry long limit:7 RTS thr:off Fragment thr:off
Encryption key:4E62-5E69-A937-A911-636E-92C2-92
Power Management:off
Link Quality=70/100 Signal level=70/100
Rx invalid nwid:0 Rx invalid crypt:0 Rx invalid frag:0
Tx excessive retries:0 Invalid misc:0 Missed beacon:0

[root@mepis85dell mark]#


Steven Black wrote:
> The wlan0 vs eth[0-9] thing varies by kernel release as nearly as I
> can tell. I think they're mostly normalizing the kernel names at this
> point, and the newer kernels I've used all used the eth name instead
> of wlan. I've not seen wlan used for a year or more in the Ubuntu
> world.
>
> Wireless networking is tricky in any Linux distro -- in part because
> of manufacturers, and in part due to the FCC.
>
> ifconfig <no options> will show you all your ethernet devices.
>
> iwconfig <no options> will note all the ethernet devices with wireless
> capabilities.
>
> Sometimes, depending on the software you have installed, these lists
> will include things other than real physical devices.
>
> In this case SimplyMEPIS would have exactly the same problems. This is
> a Linux kernel issue and not a distro issue. As near as I can tell
> from my research, Broadcom -- the chipmaker -- does not allow any
> Linux distro to ship with their firmware. Of course, this may be
> different for distros willing to pay...
>
> Cheers,
> Steven Black
>
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:14 PM, Mark Warner <mhwarner@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think you need to be using wlan0 or similar rather than eth2.
>>
>> FWIW, straight Debian is a PITA to configure wireless on. I prefer the
>> Debian stable derivative SimplyMEPIS, that has all the desktop
>> enhancements baked in. Life's too short.
>>
>> MEPIS is KDE. If you prefer Gnome, Ubuntu or Mint would good alternatives.
>>
>> --
>> Mark Warner
>> MEPIS Linux
>> Registered Linux User #415318
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>


--
Mark Warner
goin' mobile with MEPIS Linux
Registered Linux User #415318

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Re: [BLUG] help desperately needed for wireless on Debian

The wlan0 vs eth[0-9] thing varies by kernel release as nearly as I
can tell. I think they're mostly normalizing the kernel names at this
point, and the newer kernels I've used all used the eth name instead
of wlan. I've not seen wlan used for a year or more in the Ubuntu
world.

Wireless networking is tricky in any Linux distro -- in part because
of manufacturers, and in part due to the FCC.

ifconfig <no options> will show you all your ethernet devices.

iwconfig <no options> will note all the ethernet devices with wireless
capabilities.

Sometimes, depending on the software you have installed, these lists
will include things other than real physical devices.

In this case SimplyMEPIS would have exactly the same problems. This is
a Linux kernel issue and not a distro issue. As near as I can tell
from my research, Broadcom -- the chipmaker -- does not allow any
Linux distro to ship with their firmware. Of course, this may be
different for distros willing to pay...

Cheers,
Steven Black

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:14 PM, Mark Warner <mhwarner@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think you need to be using wlan0 or similar rather than eth2.
>
> FWIW, straight Debian is a PITA to configure wireless on. I prefer the
> Debian stable derivative SimplyMEPIS, that has all the desktop
> enhancements baked in. Life's too short.
>
> MEPIS is KDE. If you prefer Gnome, Ubuntu or Mint would good alternatives.
>
> --
> Mark Warner
> MEPIS Linux
> Registered Linux User #415318
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Re: [BLUG] help desperately needed for wireless on Debian

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:04 PM, Loren Serfass
<lorenserfass331@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>     Right, I have a CD with windows drivers on it.

That's a plus. You know that CD should have the correct firmware on it.

> The website you
> sent refers to the bcm43xx-fwcutter program which "cuts" the firmware
> from the windows files.  I had been trying to use b43-fwcutter, which
> is supposed to do something similar.  The bcm43xx one is also
> available on synaptic, but I get an error message when I try to
> install it.

Yeah, I wouldn't worry about it. It was my fault for Googling before
checking the link you mentioned. The link you mentioned appears to be
more current than the sites I mentioned.

> The ubuntu How To that you sent remarked that
> "...basically every 'no' vote and 'this didnt work for me' post comes
> from a BCM4318 user...."  That's my chipset.  It's strange, since the
> other websites I visited said that it should work.

I'm crossing my fingers that some of those people didn't get it to
work as they were trying to use the wrong firmware. Some companies
make firmware that will work on a wide set of their hardware. This,
however, may very well not be one of those cases.

The b43-cutter downloaded and installed the firmware, right? Try
cutting the firmware out of the drivers on the CD and seeing of that
firmware works better.

Once the firmware is in the correct spot in the filesystem, reboot the
PC. This way there won't be any possibility of the correct firmware
not loading because it already has the old/bogus firmware loaded. (If
the firmware files were the same, this is something that could be
silently ignored, so I wouldn't expect that to produce an error
condition when removing/reinstalling the kernel driver.)

>     Perhaps the problem is that I tried two different methods and
> they interfered with each other?

The two methods will definitely interfere with each other. Back out
the ndiswrapper stuff and stay away from it.
"ndiswrapper" is great -- when there isn't a native Linux driver. In
this case, there is a native Linux driver however getting the firmware
to work is a little off.

Cheers,
Steven Black

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Re: [BLUG] help desperately needed for wireless on Debian

Loren Serfass wrote:

> There's a completely different set of directions at
> http://www.tuxmagazine.com/node/1000167
> This approach uses ndiswrapper to translate between a windows driver
> and the operating system. I've tried installing it and I successfully
> loaded the module into the kernel. Everything went OK until the
> section entitled "Set up networking." I used the "Network Settings"
> GUI, which takes a long time but eventually says that the wireless
> interface is active. When I say "ifup eth2" to the terminal, it says
> "interface eth2 already configured." However, this doesn't solve the
> ESSID and Access Point problems, and the directions don't help.


I think you need to be using wlan0 or similar rather than eth2.

FWIW, straight Debian is a PITA to configure wireless on. I prefer the
Debian stable derivative SimplyMEPIS, that has all the desktop
enhancements baked in. Life's too short.

MEPIS is KDE. If you prefer Gnome, Ubuntu or Mint would good alternatives.

--
Mark Warner
MEPIS Linux
Registered Linux User #415318

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Re: [BLUG] help desperately needed for wireless on Debian

I should have read further initially...

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 9:33 PM, Loren Serfass
<lorenserfass331@gmail.com> wrote:
>     Here are some details to explain some of the steps I've taken.
> According to linuxwireless.org, my PCMCIA card should work with a b43
> driver (my card is a Linksys WPC54G ver. 3 with a BCM4318 chipset), so
> I've followed their directions at
> http://linuxwireless.org/en/users/Drivers/b43

|Ubuntu/Debian

|In recent versions of Ubuntu and Debian, installing the b43-fwcutter
|package will handle everything for you:

|Toggle line numbers
|
| sudo apt-get install b43-fwcutter
|
|You will be asked to automatically fetch and install the firmware into
|the right location.

If this worked, then you wouldn't have the problem you have now. You
can try uninstalling and reinstalling the b43-fwcutter package. I
would check for the location of the bcm43xx_microcode5.fw file,
though. This is the firmware that it isn't seeing. The directories do
not matter if they are empty, what matters is this one file.

If this file exists in the /etc/firmware/something directory then it
isn't being seen by the kernel when it is trying to load it.
Double-check where it is looking for the file. I thought firmware was
supposed to go in "/lib/firmware" so if it is looking for it there,
but it is being stored in /etc/firmware that could be the source of
the problem. This would be odd, though, as DEB packages usually do a
good job setting things up when they have what they need.

> The b43-fwcutter program runs automatically when I install it using
> synaptic.  Afterwards, there are b43 and b43legacy folders in
> /etc/firmware/, which seems to be correct.  But the connection doesn't
> work.  I don't know how to verify that the firmware has actually been
> loaded onto the device, which the page claims is necessary.

After you install the firmware, you probably need to unload and reload
the driver so it can see that the firmware is there. Personally, I'd
just reboot, but then I distrust unloading modules. (I started using
Linux before kernel modules, though, so I may just be old-fashioned.)

>     There's a completely different set of directions at
> http://www.tuxmagazine.com/node/1000167
> This approach uses ndiswrapper to translate between a windows driver
> and the operating system.  I've tried installing it and I successfully
> loaded the module into the kernel.  Everything went OK until the
> section entitled "Set up networking."  I used the "Network Settings"
> GUI, which takes a long time but eventually says that the wireless
> interface is active.  When I say "ifup eth2" to the terminal, it says
> "interface eth2 already configured."  However, this doesn't solve the
> ESSID and Access Point problems, and the directions don't help.

Ignore the ndiswrapper stuff. If you did anything to set it up, back
it out. The ndiswrapper stuff will very likely conflict with the
native driver stuff.

Sorry I didn't read the whole thing the first time. :/ We'll get you
sorted out soon enough.

Cheers,
Steven Black

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