Tuesday, May 4, 2010

Re: [BLUG] I don't think Linux will ever be ready for the Desktop

Joe Auty wrote:
> Mark Warner wrote:
>> Joe Auty wrote:
>>>
>>> I know this is sort of troll-like, but I do mean this in a constructive
>>> way. I've wanted Linux to be ready for the Desktop, but I just don't
>>> think it will ever get there. At what point does it make sense to just
>>> focus on using Linux on servers and give up on using it as a Desktop OS?
>>>
>>> The failings of Ubuntu,
>>
>> I'd suggest you try something besides Ubuntu. In my (admittedly limited)
>> experience, there are desktop distros out there that are far more stable
>> than Ubuntu. Perhaps Debian stable, or a direct derivative thereof (see
>> my sig)?
>
> I've thought about switching distros, but the biggest bug I'm facing is
> the ethernet controller problem, and this exists in multiple distros:
>
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/454747

Why not replace the VIA ethernet card? It's ten bucks, fer cryin' out loud.

--
Mark Warner
MEPIS Linux
Registered Linux User #415318

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Re: [BLUG] I don't think Linux will ever be ready for the Desktop

Mark Warner wrote:
Joe Auty wrote:   
I know this is sort of troll-like, but I do mean this in a constructive  way. I've wanted Linux to be ready for the Desktop, but I just don't  think it will ever get there. At what point does it make sense to just  focus on using Linux on servers and give up on using it as a Desktop OS?  The failings of Ubuntu,      
 I'd suggest you try something besides Ubuntu. In my (admittedly limited)  experience, there are desktop distros out there that are far more stable  than Ubuntu. Perhaps Debian stable, or a direct derivative thereof (see  my sig)?    

I've thought about switching distros, but the biggest bug I'm facing is the ethernet controller problem, and this exists in multiple distros:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/454747

one guy reports seeing reports of this in 2002. I'm afraid of trading off one set of problems for another. I'm also not sure how well MythTV would work in Debian?


That being said, I would *love* some stability and some way to get everything stable so that I can just leave it that way. I keep on updating hoping to solve problems or make things better.

Thanks for the suggestions, keep em' coming! I don't mean this to be just a rant... I'm obviously frustrated, but I'll regroup :)



--
Joe Auty, NetMusician
NetMusician helps musicians, bands and artists create beautiful, professional, custom designed, career-essential websites that are easy to maintain and to integrate with popular social networks.
www.netmusician.org
joe@netmusician.org

Re: [BLUG] I don't think Linux will ever be ready for the Desktop

> Is there any reason why I should not give up on Desktop Linux, guys? I
> don't mean to be troll-ish at all, I'm a very heavy Linux/BSD user, I
> like the idea of consolidating on Linux for my day-to-day use, I'm
> rooting for it. But, it is what it is. Is there a point where it's just
> a complete waste of effort to expend more resources into Desktop Linux?
> Now that I'm a full-time freelancer, I certainly don't have as much
> interest as I used to in fiddling with Linux for my entertainment
> purposes, it's just a huge time sink.

Well, what can I say? You're using Ubuntu, and while I think that
Ubuntu has done a lot of good things for Desktop Linux, it's not
synonomous with it. Particularly, it's not really the most stable
distribution out there. If you want something that is stable and
solid, go with one of the enterprise desktop solutions like RHEL or
SUSE Enterprise Linux. They focus more on reliable desktop
experiences. I haven't used Suse Enterprise Linux yet, but I plan to
do so this Summer.

Basically, there's a lot that needs to be done in order to help make
Linux a more reliable desktop, but systems are becoming more and more
reliable, so I'd say we're not moving backwards.

Aaron W. Hsu
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Re: [BLUG] I don't think Linux will ever be ready for the Desktop

Joe Auty wrote:
> I know this is sort of troll-like, but I do mean this in a constructive
> way. I've wanted Linux to be ready for the Desktop, but I just don't
> think it will ever get there. At what point does it make sense to just
> focus on using Linux on servers and give up on using it as a Desktop OS?
>
> The failings of Ubuntu,

I'd suggest you try something besides Ubuntu. In my (admittedly limited)
experience, there are desktop distros out there that are far more stable
than Ubuntu. Perhaps Debian stable, or a direct derivative thereof (see
my sig)?

--
Mark Warner
MEPIS Linux
Registered Linux User #415318

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[BLUG] I don't think Linux will ever be ready for the Desktop

I know this is sort of troll-like, but I do mean this in a constructive way. I've wanted Linux to be ready for the Desktop, but I just don't think it will ever get there. At what point does it make sense to just focus on using Linux on servers and give up on using it as a Desktop OS?

The failings of Ubuntu, in my personal experience, largely don't have much to do with Linux itself, but with the general ecosystem. As of right now my ethernet controller just randomly panics and I can't do anything to restore network connectivity but restarting my machine. This is clearly documented in a bug report on Launchpad, this is a known and confirmed issue. The update to Ubuntu 10.04 broke LIRC for me - also a documented and known issue. I'm also getting random problems preventing DVDs from working with messages logged along the lines of the DVD being resized (I've had this problem off and on for ages). I've encountered reports of other people having the same problem. The NVidia drivers randomly cause XOrg to crash. I haven't had this problem in 10.04 yet, but the weakness of these drivers have been documented too, hence Nouveau except it doesn't have 3D acceleration yet. The 64 bit version of Flash doesn't support fullscreen video properly. The 9.10 update (if memory serves) partially crippled LIRC for me in using my IR blaster. Shared printing broke in Ubuntu 9.10, and SMB printer browsing randomly broke for me too. I can print to my shared printer when I restart SMB and enter its name manually. I've had file system corruption with ext4. It literally seems like more stuff is broken than is not, I've always had something or another broken, and maybe I'm anal, but I like having stuff work.

None of this touches on the various usability problems I've encountered or problems I had some time ago, these are all just recent problems. Like I said, most of these have been documented and acknowledged. A couple might be fixed in the 2.6.33 kernels, but I've been unable to get sound the the NVidia driver to work in these kernels last time I tried. Like I said, I realize that Linux itself is not to blame for all of this. I appreciate something like LIRC existing pretty cool, I'm willing to overlook some problems.

What is difficult to overlook is the constant regression and coin flip as to what will go wrong whenever I update. I should not have to wipe and reinstall an OS in 2010 as a troubleshooting technique, the idea of bit rot or some sort of corruption is weird voodoo, and it is most frustrating when I go ahead and do something like this anyway only for it not to make a difference anyway.

So, it's 2010. We've been hoping that Desktop Linux will be more bulletproof for a long time now, it's just not there. Monitor arrangement is nowhere near as solid as its been on the Mac since probably the 1990s or something. The commitment from vendors like NVidia, ATI, Adobe, and probably many others is just not there. I'm sure some progress will be made, but it is so far away from being an OS that Grandma can use that it's laughable. Yes, one can setup a rig for Grandma for specific tasks and she can never update it, and yes Desktop Linux can be functional in some cases, but how about Grandma or even Mom being self sufficient like some can approach being with Windows or OS X?


Is there any reason why I should not give up on Desktop Linux, guys? I don't mean to be troll-ish at all, I'm a very heavy Linux/BSD user, I like the idea of consolidating on Linux for my day-to-day use, I'm rooting for it. But, it is what it is. Is there a point where it's just a complete waste of effort to expend more resources into Desktop Linux? Now that I'm a full-time freelancer, I certainly don't have as much interest as I used to in fiddling with Linux for my entertainment purposes, it's just a huge time sink.



--
Joe Auty, NetMusician
NetMusician helps musicians, bands and artists create beautiful, professional, custom designed, career-essential websites that are easy to maintain and to integrate with popular social networks.
www.netmusician.org
joe@netmusician.org

Monday, April 26, 2010

[BLUG] Lucid Release Party

In celebration of the release of Ubuntu 10.04 (Lucid Lynx), the Indiana
Ubuntu Local Community Team is holding a Hardy Release Party on
Saturday, May 8, 2010 at the Reddick Shelterhouse at Fort Harrison
State Park in Indianapolis.

This release party is being organized in pitch-in fashion. To sign up
to bring an item or for more information, visit the wiki page:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IndianaTeam/LucidReleaseParty

Hope to see you there!
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Friday, April 16, 2010

Re: [BLUG] help desperately needed for wireless on Debian

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:44:41PM -0400, Kirk Gleason wrote:
> I am running kubuntu 10.04 BETA2 right now, and my wireless NIC is
> called WLAN0. I do recall seeing a Wireless NIC called ethX in gentoo
> a few years back ...

While not having looked at the wireless codebase in the kernel in many
years, I'm pretty sure it is driver dependent as I've seen no change in
the name (one wlan, one eth) on a computer that has used wireless since
the 2.4 kernel. My best guess is that *if* any naming is being
standardized in the kernel, it is exclusive to kernel-supplied drivers
and not 3rd party ones.

--
Jeff

My other computer is an abacus.

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