Re: [BLUG] BLUG ideas

#5

Check out the linux terminal sever project: http://www.ltsp.org

I used it with 486s stripped to not even a fan in the power supplys.  

Re: [BLUG] BLUG ideas

On Fri, Nov 07, 2008 at 12:20:33PM -0500, Barry Schatz wrote:
> Steven Black wrote:
> > 1. Linux, Children and Edutainment: How young is too young?
> 1. As soon as possible. Hook 'em while they're young. I grew up on DOS
> (first computer in '88, when I was 3) and it only messed me up a little.
> :) The kde-edu suite of apps would be a good place to start.

Yeah. I gew up on DOS as well. That was mostly just because there were
a lot of games for it, though. I even wrote Batch files. In fact, I used
the rebranded 4DOS (command.com alternative) that was bundled with Norton
Utilities (IIRC), right up until I moved to Linux. I nearly wet myself
when I discovered the power of BASH.

I did have early exposure to UNIX-like operating systems, though.

> > 2. Children and programming: Best first language before age 10?
> 2. Start with Logo (the turtle scripting language). There are free Logo
> environments for pretty much every platform out there. Move onto Python
> after mastering the basics like loops and variables.

Yeah, Logo is popular. I remember it from when I was young, though. I
thought it was crap. You couldn't do anything "real" with it. So why
bother learning it first?

I cut my teeth on Borland's Turbo Basic. Don't get me wrong, this was a
great product and *much* better than the then-current MS alternative.
However, I always felt shackled by it. I knew it wasn't powerful enough
to do some of the things I wanted to do, and it was just a matter of
time until I was forced to learn something better.

I left Basic wholesale. I uninstalled the IDE and I wiped all my old
code the day I decided to learn C. I never went back. Instead I wondered
why I didn't just learn C to start with.

These days there are other options for first languages. You can do
"real" things with Python, and there are rich libraries to draw from.

Why recommend someone learn something that is ultimately valueless?
That's like recommending my kid start out with FreeDOS and Command.com,
so they think BASH is super cool once they move on to it. Where's the
value? It only adds to the confusion, and prevents early mastery of the
best practices.

> > 3. Content filtering: [...]
> 3. It works up to a point. Whitelisting is more effective, but much more
> restrictive. If you use it to protect your children on the 'net, be glad
> when they figure out how to circumvent it because it shows they have
> good problem solving skills.

That's where transparent proxies fall in to place. Out-going ports are
filtered so everything gets properly proxied and monitored or they get
nothing.

You *can* do content filtering, and it is possible to do it so that it
actually works as designed. The problem though is that it rarely prevents
kids from getting where they want to go. The easiest solution is to just
go to a friend's house.

My goal is to be that friend's house. Allow them to get the information
they want and need. However, if something comes up that I should be aware
of, I should be able to find out.

People worry about sex and drugs and preditors. Sometimes they totally
fail to spot things like anorexia (or the fact that there is a whole
"pro-anna" community online that encourages the anorexic look). Then you
have the fact that some of the kids themselves act like preditors...

Ultimately the goal is for my kid to think for herself and make the
right decisions. Correct decisions are rarely made in an information
vacuum.

> > 4. An on-going report grading distributions for comparison purposes.
> 4. Distrowatch is the closest thing I know of, but it doesn't do what
> you're looking for. Maybe someone else can help.

This would be why it would qualify as an idea for if not a series
of meetings topics, than an on-going BLUG-related project with
regular status updates. Plus a lot of folks like to try out the latest
distributions. Some of the work happens on its own, and it is only the
"scorecard" that really needs to be standardized upon.

> > 5. Dumb terminals, X terminals, and thin clients on the family network.
> 5. I don't know where to get one, but I've seen very small ARM-based
> linux boxes that bolt onto the VESA mount on flatscreen monitors. It's a
> little more powerful than a dumb terminal, but it only consumes 10W of
> power. Jon "maddog" Hall is a huge fan of these.

Yeah, these are neat. I've seen them priced online. The ones I've seen
are surprisingly expensive when compared to potential uses of otherwise
junked hardware.

--
Steven Black <blacks@indiana.edu> / KeyID: 8596FA8E
Fingerprint: 108C 089C EFA4 832C BF07 78C2 DE71 5433 8596 FA8E

Re: [BLUG] BLUG ideas

1. As soon as possible. Hook 'em while they're young. I grew up on DOS
(first computer in '88, when I was 3) and it only messed me up a little.
:) The kde-edu suite of apps would be a good place to start.

2. Start with Logo (the turtle scripting language). There are free Logo
environments for pretty much every platform out there. Move onto Python
after mastering the basics like loops and variables.

3. It works up to a point. Whitelisting is more effective, but much more
restrictive. If you use it to protect your children on the 'net, be glad
when they figure out how to circumvent it because it shows they have
good problem solving skills.

4. Distrowatch is the closest thing I know of, but it doesn't do what
you're looking for. Maybe someone else can help.

5. I don't know where to get one, but I've seen very small ARM-based
linux boxes that bolt onto the VESA mount on flatscreen monitors. It's a
little more powerful than a dumb terminal, but it only consumes 10W of
power. Jon "maddog" Hall is a huge fan of these.

-Barry Schatz

Steven Black wrote:
> As a new father, I have interests in the following topics:
>
> 1. Linux, Children and Edutainment: How young is too young?
>
> Personally, I'm thinking three is about as young as is probably
> feasable. I've not looked at the edutainment options all that
> thoroughly yet, though, so I don't know what other people think.
>
> 2. Children and programming: Best first language before age 10?
>
> Personally, I'm thinking of teaching Python at 8. What have other
> people done? What are other people planning?
>
> 3. Content filtering: Does anyone actually use this? Does it work, or
> is it flawed by design?
>
> Personally, I'm genuinely opposed to content filtering. However,
> I'm am interested in what people use, and how effective they find
> it to be.
>
> I'm much more interested in whole network web logging via transparent
> proxies. I want to know where folks are going, but I don't intend to
> stop them until I see something requiring intervention.
>
> 4. An on-going report grading distributions for comparison purposes.
> It would be nice to see this listing results for various hardware
> categories, so distributions focusing on older hardware could be
> compared to peers, as opposed to comparing all distributions equally.
>
> The premise here is simple. Everyone can (and should) be using Linux,
> however due to differing hardware availability everyone may not be
> able to use the same distribution of Linux. What sort of distribution
> would best for the youngster getting the hand-me-down computer?
>
> 5. Dumb terminals, X terminals, and thin clients on the family network.
> What are people using? What works? What can we actively recommend
> people avoid?
>
> While genuine dumb terminals are now few and far between, any home
> computer regardless of the age can be used as a dumb terminal as long as
> it still has a functioning serial port. (This includes old Apple ][s.)
> I had a dumb terminal in my bedroom when I was little. The lack of
> graphics support means that inappropriate pictures simply won't be
> available.
>
> You also have the options of ultra-light-weight Linux machines
> functioning as X terminals, as well as a number of commercial or
> home-grown thin client soliutions. (This could even include some
> FreeDOS set ups.)
>
> As I mentioned, I've a baby up at Riley, so I won't be able to
> contribute or attend any meetings on these topics for an indeterminate
> time. These were just ideas I had.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>

_______________________________________________
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Re: [BLUG] BLUG ideas

As a new father, I have interests in the following topics:

1. Linux, Children and Edutainment: How young is too young?

Personally, I'm thinking three is about as young as is probably
feasable. I've not looked at the edutainment options all that
thoroughly yet, though, so I don't know what other people think.

2. Children and programming: Best first language before age 10?

Personally, I'm thinking of teaching Python at 8. What have other
people done? What are other people planning?

3. Content filtering: Does anyone actually use this? Does it work, or
is it flawed by design?

Personally, I'm genuinely opposed to content filtering. However,
I'm am interested in what people use, and how effective they find
it to be.

I'm much more interested in whole network web logging via transparent
proxies. I want to know where folks are going, but I don't intend to
stop them until I see something requiring intervention.

4. An on-going report grading distributions for comparison purposes.
It would be nice to see this listing results for various hardware
categories, so distributions focusing on older hardware could be
compared to peers, as opposed to comparing all distributions equally.

The premise here is simple. Everyone can (and should) be using Linux,
however due to differing hardware availability everyone may not be
able to use the same distribution of Linux. What sort of distribution
would best for the youngster getting the hand-me-down computer?

5. Dumb terminals, X terminals, and thin clients on the family network.
What are people using? What works? What can we actively recommend
people avoid?

While genuine dumb terminals are now few and far between, any home
computer regardless of the age can be used as a dumb terminal as long as
it still has a functioning serial port. (This includes old Apple ][s.)
I had a dumb terminal in my bedroom when I was little. The lack of
graphics support means that inappropriate pictures simply won't be
available.

You also have the options of ultra-light-weight Linux machines
functioning as X terminals, as well as a number of commercial or
home-grown thin client soliutions. (This could even include some
FreeDOS set ups.)

As I mentioned, I've a baby up at Riley, so I won't be able to
contribute or attend any meetings on these topics for an indeterminate
time. These were just ideas I had.

Cheers,

--
Steven Black <blacks@indiana.edu> / KeyID: 8596FA8E
Fingerprint: 108C 089C EFA4 832C BF07 78C2 DE71 5433 8596 FA8E

On Thu, Nov 06, 2008 at 09:11:37PM -0500, Dave Cooley wrote:
> Please note the November meeting is on a different day of the week. I
> realized that Tuesdays were not going to work for me for the foreseeable
> future, and talked with a few other folks who attend, and I think maybe
> we'll try meeting on Thursdays for awhile.
>
> WHAT: BLUG social outing
> WHERE: Yogi's Grille, 10th St and Indiana Ave
> WHEN: THURSDAY 11/13/2008, 7:00PM
>
>
> At this meeting, I'd like to discuss any and all presentations anybody
> is interested in doing; we haven't had one in awhile. I've had requests
> for anyone with experience in using Linux as a PVR and/or Media Center,
> but it's not something I've done (any volunteers?). I'd personally love
> to see what cool stuff you folks are doing with those little
> ultra-mobile laptops.
>
> If nobody has one in mind, I'll try to put one together myself for December.
>
> I'd also like to talk to anybody willing to volunteer to sub for me;
> I've realized that in the case where I can't make it, I don't feel right
> scheduling a meeting. I'd love to have somebody else willing to
> schedule it anyway (during any given month where I'm not free). Any
> takers?
>
> Cheers, and see you Thursday (one week from this writing)
>
> Cooley
>
> --
> Dave Cooley
> dcooley@kiva.net

Re: [BLUG] meeting identifiers and other options

As a long-time meeter of people I only knew from online, I can say that
an identifier (like a penguin) would work, but a better option may be
to get photos of the folks that manage to attend regularly up. Better
still would be some photos of some of the meetings (both social and
structured).

Plus, I think photos may help encourage people to attend a little
better. If there are photos of some of the meetings, they can get an
idea of what happens. Worst case, someone can tell the spouse, "I'm
going out to meet a bunch of crazy Linux fans. If I don't come back,
these are their names and pictures."

Just my two cents. I'll be stuck in Indy until I can either take my baby
home or she's big enough to transfer to B-ton.

Cheers,

--
Steven Black <blacks@indiana.edu> / KeyID: 8596FA8E
Fingerprint: 108C 089C EFA4 832C BF07 78C2 DE71 5433 8596 FA8E

On Fri, Nov 07, 2008 at 08:16:29AM -0500, James K. Muncy wrote:
> I'm voting for Wednesday and If you are going to meet in a public area like
> Yogi's, please use some kind of identifier so that newbies can find you. Maybe
> a penguin on the table.
>
> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 9:11 PM, Dave Cooley <dcooley@kiva.net> wrote:
>
> Please note the November meeting is on a different day of the week. I
> realized that Tuesdays were not going to work for me for the foreseeable
> future, and talked with a few other folks who attend, and I think maybe
> we'll try meeting on Thursdays for awhile.
>
> WHAT: BLUG social outing
> WHERE: Yogi's Grille, 10th St and Indiana Ave
> WHEN: THURSDAY 11/13/2008, 7:00PM
>
>
> At this meeting, I'd like to discuss any and all presentations anybody is
> interested in doing; we haven't had one in awhile. I've had requests for
> anyone with experience in using Linux as a PVR and/or Media Center, but
> it's not something I've done (any volunteers?). I'd personally love to see
> what cool stuff you folks are doing with those little ultra-mobile laptops.
>
> If nobody has one in mind, I'll try to put one together myself for
> December.
>
> I'd also like to talk to anybody willing to volunteer to sub for me; I've
> realized that in the case where I can't make it, I don't feel right
> scheduling a meeting. I'd love to have somebody else willing to schedule
> it anyway (during any given month where I'm not free). Any takers?
>
> Cheers, and see you Thursday (one week from this writing)
>
> Cooley
>
> --
> Dave Cooley
> dcooley@kiva.net

Re: [BLUG] BLUG meeting: THURSDAY November 13

I'm voting for Wednesday and If you are going to meet in a public area like Yogi's, please use some kind of identifier so that newbies can find you. Maybe a penguin on the table.
 

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 9:11 PM, Dave Cooley <dcooley@kiva.net> wrote:

Please note the November meeting is on a different day of the week.  I realized that Tuesdays were not going to work for me for the foreseeable future, and talked with a few other folks who attend, and I think maybe we'll try meeting on Thursdays for awhile.

WHAT: BLUG social outing
WHERE: Yogi's Grille, 10th St and Indiana Ave
WHEN: THURSDAY 11/13/2008, 7:00PM


At this meeting, I'd like to discuss any and all presentations anybody is interested in doing; we haven't had one in awhile.  I've had requests for anyone with experience in using Linux as a PVR and/or Media Center, but it's not something I've done (any volunteers?).  I'd personally love to see what cool stuff you folks are doing with those little ultra-mobile laptops.

If nobody has one in mind, I'll try to put one together myself for December.

I'd also like to talk to anybody willing to volunteer to sub for me; I've realized that in the case where I can't make it, I don't feel right scheduling a meeting.  I'd love to have somebody else willing to schedule it anyway (during any given month where I'm not free).  Any takers?

Cheers, and see you Thursday (one week from this writing)

Cooley

--
Dave Cooley
dcooley@kiva.net

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BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Re: [BLUG] Virtual Box OSE: The Issue

Sorry for the slow response.  Michael's suggestion has worked.  Now that I've mounted my DVD drive, the Windows installation has begun.  Unfortunately, I've had to cancel the installation b/c I have to get to work!  Any pitfalls I can avoid in the installation from here on out?

Can't wait for five o'clock. . . .

Thanks,

Matt