Friday, December 12, 2008

Re: [BLUG] FSF lawsuit against Cicso

On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 01:24:55PM -0500, Barry Schatz wrote:
> So... opinions yet?

I think this is probably one of the places where there are relatively
few oppinions on the issue.

Snipped from http://www.fsf.org/news/2008-12-cisco-suit
|"We began working with Cisco in 2003 to help them establish a process
|for complying with our software licenses, and the initial changes were
|very promising," explained Brett Smith, licensing compliance engineer at
|the FSF. "Unfortunately, they never put in the effort that was necessary
|to finish the process, and now five years later we have still not seen
|a plan for compliance. As a result, we believe that legal action is the
|best way to restore the rights we grant to all users of our software."

When I worked at Be, Inc. we were contacted by the FSF when we didn't
properly distribute everytihng. They're really quite friendly folks,
willing to work with companies to get things to comply.

They had 5 years. I don't care how many restructurings a particular
group has within that time. (That's the only reason I can think of as to
a legitimate reason this would have been delayed.) It just doesn't take
that long to get everything in order.

It is quite simple: If it is linked in to a GPLed application (even
dynamically), it becomes GPLed. If this included things that licenses
or legislation prevents from being readily handled, then you should
have structured things to avoid this in the first place. (Fortunately,
due to the GPL v3, if they added code to which they have patents, they
basically reliquish the patents.)

When it comes to some items, things get simpler. The LGPL allows you
to modify libraries, but perhaps not the application itself. In this
case you sometimes need to provide object files of the closed source
components so the LGPLed parts can be modified and relinked. (Due to the
Tivoization claused in the (L)GPL v3, they need to allow people to put
this modified executible on the devices.)

Then again, if they were actually using older pre-GPL3 versions of the
software (this has been on-going for 5 years, and they may not have
been using current versions even then) then things get simpler still.
You don't lose your patents by using them in GPLed code, and you do not
have to provide a method for people to upload the modified code to the
device.

It looks like Oracle was trying to call a bluff. They've clearly not
been paying attention, though, because the FSF has done this sort of
thing before. You don't have to accept the GPL license, but the GPL
license is the only thing granting you rights outside of standard
copyright law. If you don't accept it, you can neither modify the code,
nor distribute it to other people.

Cheers,

--
Steven Black <blacks@indiana.edu> / KeyID: 8596FA8E
Fingerprint: 108C 089C EFA4 832C BF07 78C2 DE71 5433 8596 FA8E

Re: [BLUG] FSF lawsuit against Cicso

On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 1:24 PM, Barry Schatz <sorbetninja@gmail.com> wrote:
> So... opinions yet?
>
> -Barry Schatz

It stinks!

-Jay Sherman

;-)
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[BLUG] FSF lawsuit against Cicso

If you haven't already heard, the Free Software Foundation (FSF) is
filing a lawsuit against Cisco for copyright violation. Apparently,
Cisco hasn't been good about following the GPL that much of its software
stack is licensed on. The Software Freedom Law Center (SFLC) is
representing the FSF.

FSF news site:
http://www.fsf.org/news/2008-12-cisco-suit

FSF blog:
http://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/2008-12-cisco-complaint

Ars Technica:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081211-free-software-foundation-lawsuit-against-cisco-a-first.html

So... opinions yet?

-Barry Schatz
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Wednesday, December 10, 2008

Re: [BLUG] December meeting?

Steven Black wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 12:52:51PM -0500, Barry Schatz wrote:
>
>> I know there are Vi keybindings in Bash, but I figured since I'm
>> switching shells anyway I might as well learn as much as I can.
>>
>
> I understand. VI-like bindings are neat, but they can mess with your
> ability to assist coworkers. (This is why I don't use a Dvorak keymap.)
>
You can rebind keys to make Vi usable in Dvorak. As soon as I get a
keyboard I don't hate, I'm switching that too.

>> Zsh has a bunch of features that I'm only getting started with. Spelling
>> correction in typed commands is one. The completion is also more
>> friendly. I'm not purging bash or anything, just trying a new shell and
>> seeing if it fits my needs better. I might even switch to Ksh someday.
>>
>
> My understanding is that on all regards ZSH is generally better than
> KSH. That's just rumor, of course, but I don't ever really hear people
> speaking highly of KSH. I only hear people using pdksh because they
> needed to use some craptastic commercial UNIX-like system which only has
> KSH. They install pdksh on the Linux machines so their users will have
> the same shell experience, and their scripts will continue working.
>
> This is a far cry from the people using ZSH. ZSH isn't the default shell
> anywhere, yet is readily available and easily portable. It is also good
> enough that it continues to thrive in a shell world where even Solaris
> has dropped the Korn Shell, and only the BSD folks still think C-shells
> are cool.
>
> In fact, I really think I've heard that ZSH can do everything KSH can do
> but better. I've also heard rumors that scripting the ZSH is less likely
> to have some of the security concerns that plague BASH. Of course, these
> are both unfounded rumors that I "heard somewhere", so I may be wrong.
>
I have heard most of these things. I also heard that it's faster in a
variety of synthetic benchmarks. There was an article in LinuxFormat (I
think it was LinuxFormat...) comparing various shells and Zsh came out
on top.

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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Re: [BLUG] December meeting?

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 12:52:51PM -0500, Barry Schatz wrote:
> I know there are Vi keybindings in Bash, but I figured since I'm
> switching shells anyway I might as well learn as much as I can.

I understand. VI-like bindings are neat, but they can mess with your
ability to assist coworkers. (This is why I don't use a Dvorak keymap.)

> Zsh has a bunch of features that I'm only getting started with. Spelling
> correction in typed commands is one. The completion is also more
> friendly. I'm not purging bash or anything, just trying a new shell and
> seeing if it fits my needs better. I might even switch to Ksh someday.

My understanding is that on all regards ZSH is generally better than
KSH. That's just rumor, of course, but I don't ever really hear people
speaking highly of KSH. I only hear people using pdksh because they
needed to use some craptastic commercial UNIX-like system which only has
KSH. They install pdksh on the Linux machines so their users will have
the same shell experience, and their scripts will continue working.

This is a far cry from the people using ZSH. ZSH isn't the default shell
anywhere, yet is readily available and easily portable. It is also good
enough that it continues to thrive in a shell world where even Solaris
has dropped the Korn Shell, and only the BSD folks still think C-shells
are cool.

In fact, I really think I've heard that ZSH can do everything KSH can do
but better. I've also heard rumors that scripting the ZSH is less likely
to have some of the security concerns that plague BASH. Of course, these
are both unfounded rumors that I "heard somewhere", so I may be wrong.

--
Steven Black <blacks@indiana.edu> / KeyID: 8596FA8E
Fingerprint: 108C 089C EFA4 832C BF07 78C2 DE71 5433 8596 FA8E

Re: [BLUG] Re: December meeting

Thanks! That will be a huge help to me.

Robert Felty wrote:
>> The setting is in "~/.inputrc". I did it years ago. It looks like
>> it is documented in readline(3).
>>
>
> I have been using vi key bindings for a couple years now. I absolutely love
> them. I like that they work in python and R as well as bash.
>
> One of my favorite tricks, which works in bash (maybe zsh too) is that if you
> want to do a global change from 'foo' to 'bar' on a previous command, you can
> find the command in the history (either with the up arrow, or by searching
> with /). Then enter command mode with Esc, and hit v. A fully-fledged vi
> editor opens, and I can use the command
> :s/foo/bar/g
> Then I do
> :wq
> and the temporary vi editor closes, and the command gets executed in my bash
> shell.
>
> Rob
> --
> Robert Felty
> http://robfelty.com
>
> "Women who seek to be equal with men lack ambition."
> -- Timothy Leary
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Re: [BLUG] December meeting?

I know there are Vi keybindings in Bash, but I figured since I'm
switching shells anyway I might as well learn as much as I can.

Zsh has a bunch of features that I'm only getting started with. Spelling
correction in typed commands is one. The completion is also more
friendly. I'm not purging bash or anything, just trying a new shell and
seeing if it fits my needs better. I might even switch to Ksh someday.

-Barry

Steven Black wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 09:04:53AM -0500, Barry Schatz wrote:
>
>> Also, I switched from Bash to Zsh and started using Vi keybindings. Any
>> suggestions for how to cope with the new paradigm?
>>
>
> Just an FYI, VI keybindings are also available in GNU Bash.
>
> They're handled by the GNU Readline library, so if properly configured
> all your GNU Readline programs get VI-like bindings.
>
> The setting is in "~/.inputrc". I did it years ago. It looks like
> it is documented in readline(3).
>
> I've never used the ZSH. I have heard vague positive things about it,
> though. I'm a heavy BASH scripter (though I try to stick with DASH
> compatible scripts due to speed issues). IIRC, ZSH is a Bourne shell,
> right? I don't know how its extensions compare to the BASH extensions,
> nor do I know how it compares with speed.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
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>
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>

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