Re: [BLUG] new big computer for a lab

On Mon, 2010-05-17 at 19:13 -0400, Jeremy L. Gaddis wrote:

> Have you considered the potential benefits of a number of smaller
> servers
> instead of a single large server? I'm not familiar with exactly what
> you're
> doing, but it be worth investigating.

While this is something to consider, there is also a movement among some
to consolidate tiny servers into a single virtualized environment using
things like Xen. AIX and IBM push this pretty hard on their UNIX
servers, where they have a lot of facilities for deploying one off
servers for specific tasks in a virtualized environment.

This can be a big cost saver in terms of hardware if you can balance it
all correctly.

Aaron W. Hsu

Re: [BLUG] new big computer for a lab

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 11:52 AM, Ignasi <ignasilucas@gmail.com> wrote:
> I expect between 4 and 10 people to use it at the same time. Most jobs will
> be CPU intensive, but I can also envision some sporadic jobs to require
> several GB of RAM. He also wants to store quite a bit of data there, and
> maybe host a database. I assume that nobody would use it as a desktop, but
> it would be accessed remotely. In principle, the main concern is to make it
> a fast computer.

Have you considered the potential benefits of a number of smaller servers
instead of a single large server? I'm not familiar with exactly what you're
doing, but it be worth investigating.

> I've read a little bit about RAID arrays, but never met anybody who used
> them. I'm interested in those configurations where data is mirrored, so that
> the system can tolerate the failure of one of the disks. And I've been
> warned that if all the disks composing the array are of the same brand and
> design, more than one may fail at the same time. Do you think RAID is worthy
> at all, or not necessary with a good back up system? what is better, an
> operating system RAID controller, or a hardware one?

If the data is considered important, RAID is a must. The data on my home
servers isn't critical and no financial meltdown will occur if I lose
it, but it's
important enough to me that I use RAID at home.

Steven mentioned hot spares. I'm also a big fan of hot spares, as the
failed drive
is automatically replaced by another (hopefully good!) drive and
rebuilding begins
(almost) immediately. Without a hot spare, someone must physically
pull the failed
drive and replace it before rebuilding of the array will begin.
During that time, if
another drive happens to fails, you will (typically) lose data -- this
is dependent on
what type of RAID you're using, however.

Also, and I can't stress this enough: RAID IS NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR BACKUPS.

As I said, if a drive in a RAID array fails, you can pull the dead
drive and replace it
without (online) losing any data. Heck, I've done just that less than
an hour ago.
If, however, your data becomes corrupted/accidentally deleted/etc., RAID is not
going to help you out a bit, and you're going to wish you had those backups.

--
Jeremy L. Gaddis
http://evilrouters.net/
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Re: [BLUG] new big computer for a lab

While backups are important, with any reasonable data set you're going
to lose a lot of time restoring from backups. How many days can you
afford the system to be offline? How many terabytes of data will you
need to restore?

I'm a big fan of RAID arrays with hot-spares. With a hot-spare as soon
as one drive starts failing the system recreates the data on the
hot-spare. It is nice.

I've never set up a system on that sort of scale. With that much money
involved you're probably not even looking at a single server anymore.
There's a reason the big super computers at this point are all massive
clusters.

Since this is going to be in Spain, he's going to need good support.
Linux is popular in Europe -- and for good reason -- and so it should
be relatively easy to find local support.

I really recommend he puts out a request for offers out to local folks
in Spain. The fanciest computer on the planet will do you no good at
all if you can't get good support for it. Ideally, he should be able
to find a nice Spanish company familiar with setup and service of the
size of machine he is planning. (I'm a fan of buying locally --
especially when it comes to service and support.)

Cheers,
Steven Black

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 11:52 AM, Ignasi <ignasilucas@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello.
>
> A colleague is starting his own biology lab in Spain, and he's planning to
> spend between 10,000 and 15,000 € in a computer. He asked me what features I
> think the computer should have. The fact is that I'd like to provide him
> some useful information, because I expect him to give me a job soon. So, I'd
> really appreciate your advise. Anything from hardware brands to operating
> systems will be welcome. Plus, how to spend money in hardware is a subject
> that also interests me personally. Let me give you some more background
> about what the computer may be used for.
>
> I expect between 4 and 10 people to use it at the same time. Most jobs will
> be CPU intensive, but I can also envision some sporadic jobs to require
> several GB of RAM. He also wants to store quite a bit of data there, and
> maybe host a database. I assume that nobody would use it as a desktop, but
> it would be accessed remotely. In principle, the main concern is to make it
> a fast computer.
>
> I've read a little bit about RAID arrays, but never met anybody who used
> them. I'm interested in those configurations where data is mirrored, so that
> the system can tolerate the failure of one of the disks. And I've been
> warned that if all the disks composing the array are of the same brand and
> design, more than one may fail at the same time. Do you think RAID is worthy
> at all, or not necessary with a good back up system? what is better, an
> operating system RAID controller, or a hardware one?
>
> As a biologist who works with computers, I'd like to learn more about this
> topics. Feel free to recommend books, magazines, web sites... that I can use
> to teach myself. Thanks.
>
> Ignasi.
>
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>
>

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[BLUG] new big computer for a lab

Hello.

A colleague is starting his own biology lab in Spain, and he's planning to spend between 10,000 and 15,000 € in a computer. He asked me what features I think the computer should have. The fact is that I'd like to provide him some useful information, because I expect him to give me a job soon. So, I'd really appreciate your advise. Anything from hardware brands to operating systems will be welcome. Plus, how to spend money in hardware is a subject that also interests me personally. Let me give you some more background about what the computer may be used for.

I expect between 4 and 10 people to use it at the same time. Most jobs will be CPU intensive, but I can also envision some sporadic jobs to require several GB of RAM. He also wants to store quite a bit of data there, and maybe host a database. I assume that nobody would use it as a desktop, but it would be accessed remotely. In principle, the main concern is to make it a fast computer.

I've read a little bit about RAID arrays, but never met anybody who used them. I'm interested in those configurations where data is mirrored, so that the system can tolerate the failure of one of the disks. And I've been warned that if all the disks composing the array are of the same brand and design, more than one may fail at the same time. Do you think RAID is worthy at all, or not necessary with a good back up system? what is better, an operating system RAID controller, or a hardware one?

As a biologist who works with computers, I'd like to learn more about this topics. Feel free to recommend books, magazines, web sites... that I can use to teach myself. Thanks.

Ignasi.