Friday, July 31, 2009

Re: [BLUG] Did ATT mess up your cell phone, too?

Yeah, I guess they go through Russia and then probably through Europe.
5 years ago when I was in Uzbekistan (my wife is from Tashkent), I did
some traces and they mostly went through China. I heard that most of the
ISPs in Uzbekistan go through one central ISP and then through China
from there. I've also heard of some of the other countries going through
China. But again, that might be out of date information.

Perhaps they have changed since then due to China's great firewall
practices.

On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 05:52:40PM GMT, Jonathan North Washington [jonwashi@indiana.edu] said the following:
> Ah, wasn't sure if tracert would tell the right stuff about the traffic.
>
> So, a lot of sites I tried tracerting left out too much interesting
> stuff, but I finally got one with most of the interesting stuff:
>
> jonathan@terek:~$ sudo tracert amazon.com [23:40]
> traceroute to amazon.com (72.21.207.65), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
> 1 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 1.174 ms 3.106 ms *
> 2 * * *
> 3 * * *
> 4 * * *
> 5 * * *
> 6 * asta-core-l2-1-2.online.kz (92.47.151.165) 47.863 ms 48.215 ms
> 7 asta-core-l1-1.online.kz (92.47.145.41) 48.333 ms 50.141 ms 50.946 ms
> 8 akto-core-l1-1.online.kz (92.47.145.6) 51.283 ms 51.683 ms 52.041 ms
> 9 akto-core-l2-1-2.online.kz (92.47.145.30) 54.361 ms 54.695 ms 55.065 ms
> 10 akto-gate-1.online.kz (92.47.151.174) 52.721 ms 53.061 ms 53.482 ms
> 11 MSK-D2-HQ-xe2-3-0.main.synterra.ru (83.229.241.233) 73.830 ms
> 74.174 ms 73.780 ms
> 12 MSK-B1-HQ-1-0-0.0.main.synterra.ru (83.229.226.85) 74.154 ms
> 70.385 ms 73.296 ms
> 13 ae0-304.RT.V10.MSK.RU.retn.net (87.245.253.169) 73.866 ms 71.456
> ms 71.612 ms
> 14 xe000-8.RT.EQX.ASH.US.retn.net (87.245.233.118) 220.277 ms
> 220.575 ms 222.427 ms
> 15 * * *
> 16 * * *
> 17 * * *
> 18 * * *
> 19 * * *
> 20 * * *
> 21 * * *
> 22 * * *
> 23 * * *
> 24 * * *
> 25 * * *
> 26 * * *
> 27 * * *
> 28 * * *
> 29 * * *
> 30 * * *
>
> That's through Kazakhstan: probably first Almaty, then apparently
> Astana and Aqtöbe. Then a few hops in Russia and then across the
> Atlantic. With some other sites there've been some hops in Europe.
>
> Also, traffic directed to China also goes through Russia, and
> apparently Europe and even America (?!):
>
> jonathan@terek:~$ sudo tracert english.cpc.people.com.cn [23:45]
> traceroute to english.cpc.people.com.cn (202.108.251.45), 30 hops max,
> 60 byte packets
> 1 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 1.137 ms 1.596 ms *
> 2 * * *
> 3 * * *
> 4 * * *
> 5 * * *
> 6 * asta-core-l2-1-2.online.kz (92.47.151.165) 45.263 ms 45.946 ms
> 7 asta-core-l1-1.online.kz (92.47.145.41) 46.341 ms 46.780 ms 47.423 ms
> 8 akto-core-l1-1.online.kz (92.47.145.6) 48.723 ms 49.194 ms 49.819 ms
> 9 akto-core-l2-1-2.online.kz (92.47.145.30) 48.119 ms 50.126 ms 51.798 ms
> 10 akto-gate-1.online.kz (92.47.151.174) 50.290 ms 50.665 ms 51.027 ms
> 11 MSK-D2-HQ-xe2-3-0.main.synterra.ru (83.229.241.233) 75.181 ms
> 75.483 ms 71.208 ms
> 12 msk-b2-hq-ae0.main.synterra.ru (83.229.228.2) 71.951 ms 73.626
> ms 77.475 ms
> 13 m9-cr01-ge3-3.msk.stream-internet.net (195.34.38.37) 78.326 ms
> 78.358 ms 71.919 ms
> 14 anc-cr01-po3.ff.stream-internet.net (195.34.53.102) 354.614 ms
> 349.316 ms 349.412 ms
> 15 sl-gw10-fra-11-0-0.sprintlink.net (217.151.254.133) 113.039 ms
> 113.329 ms 114.096 ms
> 16 sl-bb21-fra-8-0-0.sprintlink.net (217.147.96.41) 114.607 ms
> 114.616 ms 114.908 ms
> 17 sl-bb20-par-14-0-0.sprintlink.net (213.206.129.65) 125.111 ms
> 126.494 ms 126.325 ms
> 18 sl-crs1-dc-0-8-2-0.sprintlink.net (144.232.19.146) 205.747 ms * *
> 19 * * *
> 20 * * *
> 21 * * *
> 22 * * *
> 23 * * *
> 24 * * *
> 25 * * *
> 26 * * *
> 27 * * *
> 28 * * *
> 29 * * *
> 30 * * *
>
> Totally the wrong direction, but if that's where the connections are,
> okay I guess... Though you'd think sharing a border with a country
> (even if nearly impassible) would mean something.
>
> --
> Jonathan
>
> 2009/7/31 Mark Warner <markwarner1954@att.net>:
> >
> >
> > Jonathan North Washington wrote:
> >>
> >> 2009/7/31 Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org>:
> >>>
> >>> Do you know if their connection goes through China?
> >>
> >> Interesting question. is there a nice linuxy way to find out?
> >
> > tracert should tell you
> >
> > mark@mepis8:~$ su
> > Password:
> > root@mepis8:/home/mark# tracert www.google.com
> > traceroute to www.google.com (74.125.53.99), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
> >  1  192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1)  0.808 ms  0.953 ms *
> >  2  * * *
> >  3  * * *
> >  4  * * *
> >  5  * * *
> >  6  * be-10-ar01.area4.il.chicago.comcast.net (68.87.229.109)  34.049 ms
> >  37.459 ms
> >  7  pos-1-14-0-0-cr01.chicago.il.ibone.comcast.net (68.86.90.45) 38.096 ms
> >  39.694 ms  40.175 ms
> >  8  xe-10-3-0.edge1.Chicago2.Level3.net (4.71.248.9)  38.605 ms  38.847 ms
> >  39.084 ms
> >  9  vlan51.ebr1.Chicago2.Level3.net (4.69.138.158)  39.382 ms  39.871 ms
> >  40.526 ms
> > 10  ae-3.ebr2.Denver1.Level3.net (4.69.132.61)  71.492 ms  71.878 ms 72.110
> > ms
> > 11  ae-2.ebr2.Seattle1.Level3.net (4.69.132.53)  92.614 ms  92.981 ms
> > 101.897 ms
> > 12  ae-21-52.car1.Seattle1.Level3.net (4.68.105.34)  98.746 ms  89.011 ms
> >  89.181 ms
> > 13  GOOGLE-INC.car1.Seattle1.Level3.net (4.79.104.74)  136.810 ms 137.203 ms
> >  137.434 ms
> > 14  209.85.249.32 (209.85.249.32)  142.580 ms  142.960 ms *
> > 15  * * *
> > 16  * * *
> > 17  * * *
> > 18  * * *
> > 19  * * *
> > 20  * * *
> > 21  * * *
> > 22  * * *
> > 23  * * *
> > 24  * * *
> > 25  * * *
> > 26  * * *
> > 27  * * *
> > 28  * * *
> > 29  * * *
> > 30  * * *
> > root@mepis8:/home/mark#
> >
> >
> > --
> > Mark Warner
> > MEPIS Linux
> > Registered Linux User #415318
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > BLUG mailing list
> > BLUG@linuxfan.com
> > http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/

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Re: traceroute (was: [BLUG] Did ATT mess up your cell phone, too?)

On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Jonathan North
Washington<jonwashi@indiana.edu> wrote:
> Ah, wasn't sure if tracert would tell the right stuff about the traffic.
>
> So, a lot of sites I tried tracerting left out too much interesting
> stuff, but I finally got one with most of the interesting stuff:

The default traceroute on Linux uses UDP, which is dropped by lots of
places so you end up with nothing for lots of the hops. Windows
tracert uses ICMP, which seems to make it through a bit more.

On Linux, I'm a big fan of traceroute-nanog (with "-I icmp"):

$ sudo traceroute-nanog -I icmp www.google.com
traceroute to www.l.google.com (209.85.225.99), 64 hops max, 28 byte packets
1 c1811.lab.evilrouters.net (192.168.1.1) 1 ms 1 ms 0 ms
2 border2-col-GE-0-0-802.tls.net (65.124.104.49) 14 ms 13 ms 19 ms
3 border2-indy-GE-0-1-804.tls.net (65.123.104.53) 19 ms 18 ms 18 ms
4 209.120.155.17 (209.120.155.17) 74 ms 20 ms 20 ms
5 76.74.82.30 (76.74.82.30) 22 ms 19 ms 19 ms
6 76.74.82.1 (76.74.82.1) 27 ms 24 ms 23 ms
7 ge-6-7.car2.Chicago1.Level3.net (4.71.183.129) 23 ms 26 ms 24 ms
8 GOOGLE-INC.car2.Chicago1.Level3.net (4.79.66.30) 26 ms 25 ms 24 ms
9 209.85.254.122 (209.85.254.122) 71 ms (TOS=128!) 26 ms 25 ms
10 209.85.241.22 (209.85.241.22) 160 ms 35 ms 72.14.232.141
(72.14.232.141) 35 ms
11 209.85.241.37 (209.85.241.37) 36 ms 89 ms 166 ms
12 209.85.248.106 (209.85.248.106) 120 ms 64 ms 66.249.95.138
(66.249.95.138) 46 ms
13 iy-in-f99.google.com (209.85.225.99) 36 ms 36 ms 36 ms

Try it with and without "-I icmp" and you can see the difference.
traceroute-nanog also has some handy options such as -A and -O.

tcptraceroute and lft can also come in handy at times.

--
Jeremy L. Gaddis
http://evilrouters.net/
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Re: [BLUG] Did ATT mess up your cell phone, too?

Ah, wasn't sure if tracert would tell the right stuff about the traffic.

So, a lot of sites I tried tracerting left out too much interesting
stuff, but I finally got one with most of the interesting stuff:

jonathan@terek:~$ sudo tracert amazon.com [23:40]
traceroute to amazon.com (72.21.207.65), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
1 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 1.174 ms 3.106 ms *
2 * * *
3 * * *
4 * * *
5 * * *
6 * asta-core-l2-1-2.online.kz (92.47.151.165) 47.863 ms 48.215 ms
7 asta-core-l1-1.online.kz (92.47.145.41) 48.333 ms 50.141 ms 50.946 ms
8 akto-core-l1-1.online.kz (92.47.145.6) 51.283 ms 51.683 ms 52.041 ms
9 akto-core-l2-1-2.online.kz (92.47.145.30) 54.361 ms 54.695 ms 55.065 ms
10 akto-gate-1.online.kz (92.47.151.174) 52.721 ms 53.061 ms 53.482 ms
11 MSK-D2-HQ-xe2-3-0.main.synterra.ru (83.229.241.233) 73.830 ms
74.174 ms 73.780 ms
12 MSK-B1-HQ-1-0-0.0.main.synterra.ru (83.229.226.85) 74.154 ms
70.385 ms 73.296 ms
13 ae0-304.RT.V10.MSK.RU.retn.net (87.245.253.169) 73.866 ms 71.456
ms 71.612 ms
14 xe000-8.RT.EQX.ASH.US.retn.net (87.245.233.118) 220.277 ms
220.575 ms 222.427 ms
15 * * *
16 * * *
17 * * *
18 * * *
19 * * *
20 * * *
21 * * *
22 * * *
23 * * *
24 * * *
25 * * *
26 * * *
27 * * *
28 * * *
29 * * *
30 * * *

That's through Kazakhstan: probably first Almaty, then apparently
Astana and Aqtöbe. Then a few hops in Russia and then across the
Atlantic. With some other sites there've been some hops in Europe.

Also, traffic directed to China also goes through Russia, and
apparently Europe and even America (?!):

jonathan@terek:~$ sudo tracert english.cpc.people.com.cn [23:45]
traceroute to english.cpc.people.com.cn (202.108.251.45), 30 hops max,
60 byte packets
1 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 1.137 ms 1.596 ms *
2 * * *
3 * * *
4 * * *
5 * * *
6 * asta-core-l2-1-2.online.kz (92.47.151.165) 45.263 ms 45.946 ms
7 asta-core-l1-1.online.kz (92.47.145.41) 46.341 ms 46.780 ms 47.423 ms
8 akto-core-l1-1.online.kz (92.47.145.6) 48.723 ms 49.194 ms 49.819 ms
9 akto-core-l2-1-2.online.kz (92.47.145.30) 48.119 ms 50.126 ms 51.798 ms
10 akto-gate-1.online.kz (92.47.151.174) 50.290 ms 50.665 ms 51.027 ms
11 MSK-D2-HQ-xe2-3-0.main.synterra.ru (83.229.241.233) 75.181 ms
75.483 ms 71.208 ms
12 msk-b2-hq-ae0.main.synterra.ru (83.229.228.2) 71.951 ms 73.626
ms 77.475 ms
13 m9-cr01-ge3-3.msk.stream-internet.net (195.34.38.37) 78.326 ms
78.358 ms 71.919 ms
14 anc-cr01-po3.ff.stream-internet.net (195.34.53.102) 354.614 ms
349.316 ms 349.412 ms
15 sl-gw10-fra-11-0-0.sprintlink.net (217.151.254.133) 113.039 ms
113.329 ms 114.096 ms
16 sl-bb21-fra-8-0-0.sprintlink.net (217.147.96.41) 114.607 ms
114.616 ms 114.908 ms
17 sl-bb20-par-14-0-0.sprintlink.net (213.206.129.65) 125.111 ms
126.494 ms 126.325 ms
18 sl-crs1-dc-0-8-2-0.sprintlink.net (144.232.19.146) 205.747 ms * *
19 * * *
20 * * *
21 * * *
22 * * *
23 * * *
24 * * *
25 * * *
26 * * *
27 * * *
28 * * *
29 * * *
30 * * *

Totally the wrong direction, but if that's where the connections are,
okay I guess... Though you'd think sharing a border with a country
(even if nearly impassible) would mean something.

--
Jonathan

2009/7/31 Mark Warner <markwarner1954@att.net>:
>
>
> Jonathan North Washington wrote:
>>
>> 2009/7/31 Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org>:
>>>
>>> Do you know if their connection goes through China?
>>
>> Interesting question. is there a nice linuxy way to find out?
>
> tracert should tell you
>
> mark@mepis8:~$ su
> Password:
> root@mepis8:/home/mark# tracert www.google.com
> traceroute to www.google.com (74.125.53.99), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
>  1  192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1)  0.808 ms  0.953 ms *
>  2  * * *
>  3  * * *
>  4  * * *
>  5  * * *
>  6  * be-10-ar01.area4.il.chicago.comcast.net (68.87.229.109)  34.049 ms
>  37.459 ms
>  7  pos-1-14-0-0-cr01.chicago.il.ibone.comcast.net (68.86.90.45) 38.096 ms
>  39.694 ms  40.175 ms
>  8  xe-10-3-0.edge1.Chicago2.Level3.net (4.71.248.9)  38.605 ms  38.847 ms
>  39.084 ms
>  9  vlan51.ebr1.Chicago2.Level3.net (4.69.138.158)  39.382 ms  39.871 ms
>  40.526 ms
> 10  ae-3.ebr2.Denver1.Level3.net (4.69.132.61)  71.492 ms  71.878 ms 72.110
> ms
> 11  ae-2.ebr2.Seattle1.Level3.net (4.69.132.53)  92.614 ms  92.981 ms
> 101.897 ms
> 12  ae-21-52.car1.Seattle1.Level3.net (4.68.105.34)  98.746 ms  89.011 ms
>  89.181 ms
> 13  GOOGLE-INC.car1.Seattle1.Level3.net (4.79.104.74)  136.810 ms 137.203 ms
>  137.434 ms
> 14  209.85.249.32 (209.85.249.32)  142.580 ms  142.960 ms *
> 15  * * *
> 16  * * *
> 17  * * *
> 18  * * *
> 19  * * *
> 20  * * *
> 21  * * *
> 22  * * *
> 23  * * *
> 24  * * *
> 25  * * *
> 26  * * *
> 27  * * *
> 28  * * *
> 29  * * *
> 30  * * *
> root@mepis8:/home/mark#
>
>
> --
> Mark Warner
> MEPIS Linux
> Registered Linux User #415318
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>

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Re: [BLUG] Did ATT mess up your cell phone, too?

Jonathan North Washington wrote:
> 2009/7/31 Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org>:
>>
>> Do you know if their connection goes through China?
>
> Interesting question. is there a nice linuxy way to find out?

tracert should tell you

mark@mepis8:~$ su
Password:
root@mepis8:/home/mark# tracert www.google.com
traceroute to www.google.com (74.125.53.99), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 0.808 ms 0.953 ms *
2 * * *
3 * * *
4 * * *
5 * * *
6 * be-10-ar01.area4.il.chicago.comcast.net (68.87.229.109) 34.049
ms 37.459 ms
7 pos-1-14-0-0-cr01.chicago.il.ibone.comcast.net (68.86.90.45)
38.096 ms 39.694 ms 40.175 ms
8 xe-10-3-0.edge1.Chicago2.Level3.net (4.71.248.9) 38.605 ms 38.847
ms 39.084 ms
9 vlan51.ebr1.Chicago2.Level3.net (4.69.138.158) 39.382 ms 39.871
ms 40.526 ms
10 ae-3.ebr2.Denver1.Level3.net (4.69.132.61) 71.492 ms 71.878 ms
72.110 ms
11 ae-2.ebr2.Seattle1.Level3.net (4.69.132.53) 92.614 ms 92.981 ms
101.897 ms
12 ae-21-52.car1.Seattle1.Level3.net (4.68.105.34) 98.746 ms 89.011
ms 89.181 ms
13 GOOGLE-INC.car1.Seattle1.Level3.net (4.79.104.74) 136.810 ms
137.203 ms 137.434 ms
14 209.85.249.32 (209.85.249.32) 142.580 ms 142.960 ms *
15 * * *
16 * * *
17 * * *
18 * * *
19 * * *
20 * * *
21 * * *
22 * * *
23 * * *
24 * * *
25 * * *
26 * * *
27 * * *
28 * * *
29 * * *
30 * * *
root@mepis8:/home/mark#


--
Mark Warner
MEPIS Linux
Registered Linux User #415318

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
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Re: [BLUG] Did ATT mess up your cell phone, too?

2009/7/31 Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org>:
> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 02:25:40PM GMT, Jonathan North Washington [jonwashi@indiana.edu] said the following:
>>
>> On a slightly more on-topic note, and tie things together, I've been
>> having DNS issues with all wikipedia-related sites off and on
>> recently, and I called my ISP (megaline.kg???I'm in Kyrgyzstan for the
>> summer), and they checked it out, reporting "that site works fine for
>> us, and it's not one of the sites we block."  .....  Yeah.  But then
>> even in Australia they overtly block certain sites, iiuc.
>>
>
>  Do you know if their connection goes through China?


Interesting question—is there a nice linuxy way to find out?

(My assumption was that they were going through Russia—the economic
(maybe), political, and social ties are much stronger (plus the roads
are better;)—but one never can be sure with such assumptions.)

--
Jonathan


> Last time I
> checked, a lot of ISPs in Central Asia actually go through China to get
> to most of the rest of the world. And depending on what you are looking
> for, China may be blocking it. I don't really trust ISPs in Asia (and
> many other parts of the world) to know what they are doing. After all,
> many allow tons of hackers and spammers to prosper and they do almost
> nothing about it, plus they do stupid stuff like broadcast default
> routes for Youtube to go back to themselves, which is what happened on
> that Sunday back in 2007 when Youtube suddenly dropped off the net for
> everyone.
>
> --
> Mark Krenz
> Bloomington Linux Users Group
> http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>

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Re: [BLUG] Did ATT mess up your cell phone, too?

On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 02:25:40PM GMT, Jonathan North Washington [jonwashi@indiana.edu] said the following:
>
> On a slightly more on-topic note, and tie things together, I've been
> having DNS issues with all wikipedia-related sites off and on
> recently, and I called my ISP (megaline.kg???I'm in Kyrgyzstan for the
> summer), and they checked it out, reporting "that site works fine for
> us, and it's not one of the sites we block." ..... Yeah. But then
> even in Australia they overtly block certain sites, iiuc.
>

Do you know if their connection goes through China? Last time I
checked, a lot of ISPs in Central Asia actually go through China to get
to most of the rest of the world. And depending on what you are looking
for, China may be blocking it. I don't really trust ISPs in Asia (and
many other parts of the world) to know what they are doing. After all,
many allow tons of hackers and spammers to prosper and they do almost
nothing about it, plus they do stupid stuff like broadcast default
routes for Youtube to go back to themselves, which is what happened on
that Sunday back in 2007 when Youtube suddenly dropped off the net for
everyone.

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
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Re: [BLUG] Did ATT mess up your cell phone, too?



On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 10:25 PM, Jonathan North Washington <jonwashi@indiana.edu> wrote:
2009/7/31 Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org>:
> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 01:32:20PM GMT, Mark Krenz [mark@slugbug.org] said the following:
>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 01:14:50PM GMT, Jonathan North Washington [jonwashi@indiana.edu] said the following:
>> >
>> > Yeah, it's pretty consistent, especially in the west, though in some
>> > places (e.g. Central Asia) it takes a different form.  For example,
>> > the decision making power is distributed among a much smaller section
>> > of the population, and a much higher percent gets screwed over by the
>> > decisions.
>>
>>  Yes but if you pull back enough to see the bigger picture you see that
>> what happens eventually is that the right side of the graph overthrows
>> the left side in a revolution, thus deciding how things will go. You
>> may be able to surpress what the left side wants for a while, but not
>> forever.
>>
>
>  I'm sorry I meant to say the left side (the people) overthrows the
> right side (the government).

And then an elite few become the government and the cycle starts over.

On a slightly more on-topic note, and tie things together, I've been
having DNS issues with all wikipedia-related sites off and on
recently, and I called my ISP (megaline.kg—I'm in Kyrgyzstan for the
summer), and they checked it out, reporting "that site works fine for
us, and it's not one of the sites we block."  .....  Yeah.  But then
even in Australia they overtly block certain sites, iiuc.

--
Jonathan

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BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
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Well, due to the recent mess in Chinese Turkmenistan, we still can't get anything like Facebook, (Youtube has been blocked for some long time now), or anything with "blog" in the address. Ha! Not to mention a number of other services.

Matthew

Re: [BLUG] Did ATT mess up your cell phone, too?

2009/7/31 Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org>:
> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 01:32:20PM GMT, Mark Krenz [mark@slugbug.org] said the following:
>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 01:14:50PM GMT, Jonathan North Washington [jonwashi@indiana.edu] said the following:
>> >
>> > Yeah, it's pretty consistent, especially in the west, though in some
>> > places (e.g. Central Asia) it takes a different form.  For example,
>> > the decision making power is distributed among a much smaller section
>> > of the population, and a much higher percent gets screwed over by the
>> > decisions.
>>
>>  Yes but if you pull back enough to see the bigger picture you see that
>> what happens eventually is that the right side of the graph overthrows
>> the left side in a revolution, thus deciding how things will go. You
>> may be able to surpress what the left side wants for a while, but not
>> forever.
>>
>
>  I'm sorry I meant to say the left side (the people) overthrows the
> right side (the government).

And then an elite few become the government and the cycle starts over.

On a slightly more on-topic note, and tie things together, I've been
having DNS issues with all wikipedia-related sites off and on
recently, and I called my ISP (megaline.kg—I'm in Kyrgyzstan for the
summer), and they checked it out, reporting "that site works fine for
us, and it's not one of the sites we block." ..... Yeah. But then
even in Australia they overtly block certain sites, iiuc.

--
Jonathan

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Re: [BLUG] Did ATT mess up your cell phone, too?



On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:43 PM, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 01:32:20PM GMT, Mark Krenz [mark@slugbug.org] said the following:
> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 01:14:50PM GMT, Jonathan North Washington [jonwashi@indiana.edu] said the following:
> >
> > Yeah, it's pretty consistent, especially in the west, though in some
> > places (e.g. Central Asia) it takes a different form.  For example,
> > the decision making power is distributed among a much smaller section
> > of the population, and a much higher percent gets screwed over by the
> > decisions.
>
>  Yes but if you pull back enough to see the bigger picture you see that
> what happens eventually is that the right side of the graph overthrows
> the left side in a revolution, thus deciding how things will go. You
> may be able to surpress what the left side wants for a while, but not
> forever.
>

 I'm sorry I meant to say the left side (the people) overthrows the
right side (the government).


--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
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Problem is, every time so far in history that the "people" has overthrown the government, the people end up just having been hoodwinked by a worse tyrant, who then takes the reigns, usually in the name of "equality". I know, I live in China, and I study my history. There is no such thing as equality in a socialist system. Period. Unless you consider the whole thing going down the drain 'equality'...

Matthew

Re: [BLUG] Did ATT mess up your cell phone, too?

On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 01:32:20PM GMT, Mark Krenz [mark@slugbug.org] said the following:
> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 01:14:50PM GMT, Jonathan North Washington [jonwashi@indiana.edu] said the following:
> >
> > Yeah, it's pretty consistent, especially in the west, though in some
> > places (e.g. Central Asia) it takes a different form. For example,
> > the decision making power is distributed among a much smaller section
> > of the population, and a much higher percent gets screwed over by the
> > decisions.
>
> Yes but if you pull back enough to see the bigger picture you see that
> what happens eventually is that the right side of the graph overthrows
> the left side in a revolution, thus deciding how things will go. You
> may be able to surpress what the left side wants for a while, but not
> forever.
>

I'm sorry I meant to say the left side (the people) overthrows the
right side (the government).


--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Re: [BLUG] Did ATT mess up your cell phone, too?

On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 01:14:50PM GMT, Jonathan North Washington [jonwashi@indiana.edu] said the following:
>
> Yeah, it's pretty consistent, especially in the west, though in some
> places (e.g. Central Asia) it takes a different form. For example,
> the decision making power is distributed among a much smaller section
> of the population, and a much higher percent gets screwed over by the
> decisions.

Yes but if you pull back enough to see the bigger picture you see that
what happens eventually is that the right side of the graph overthrows
the left side in a revolution, thus deciding how things will go. You
may be able to surpress what the left side wants for a while, but not
forever.

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Re: [BLUG] Did ATT mess up your cell phone, too?

2009/7/31 Simón Ruiz <simon.a.ruiz@gmail.com>:
> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 7:40 AM, Jonathan North
> Washington<jonwashi@indiana.edu> wrote:
>> This isn't necessarily a "world"-wide problem.  I think it goes back
>> to the way America's democracy is set up: a system for the majority.
>> It's fair, in that most people get what they want most of the time,
>> but the problem is, in such a system, someone always looses.  The
>> economy is structured this way too.
>>
>> In an ideal America (or probably anywhere), both the economy and the
>> government would be structured so that everyone always gets enough—but
>> then, the people who currently get everything would have to be willing
>> to compromise (and not always get everything).  One can always
>> dream...
>>
>> Anyway, I agree with your statement, but I'd probably reword it to say
>> "If you want to succeed in this *America*, ..." ;)
>>
>> --
>> Jonathan
>> http://jnw.name/
>
> With my foreigner hat on, I can confirm that this bug is consistent
> and repeatable, both inside and outside America.

And as any project maintainer, I'll call you crazy. Just kidding ;)

Yeah, it's pretty consistent, especially in the west, though in some
places (e.g. Central Asia) it takes a different form. For example,
the decision making power is distributed among a much smaller section
of the population, and a much higher percent gets screwed over by the
decisions.

--
Jonathan

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Re: [BLUG] Did ATT mess up your cell phone, too?

On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 7:40 AM, Jonathan North
Washington<jonwashi@indiana.edu> wrote:
> This isn't necessarily a "world"-wide problem.  I think it goes back
> to the way America's democracy is set up: a system for the majority.
> It's fair, in that most people get what they want most of the time,
> but the problem is, in such a system, someone always looses.  The
> economy is structured this way too.
>
> In an ideal America (or probably anywhere), both the economy and the
> government would be structured so that everyone always gets enough—but
> then, the people who currently get everything would have to be willing
> to compromise (and not always get everything).  One can always
> dream...
>
> Anyway, I agree with your statement, but I'd probably reword it to say
> "If you want to succeed in this *America*, ..." ;)
>
> --
> Jonathan
> http://jnw.name/

With my foreigner hat on, I can confirm that this bug is consistent
and repeatable, both inside and outside America.

Simón

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
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Re: [BLUG] Did ATT mess up your cell phone, too?

2009/7/30 Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org>:
> On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 03:26:19PM GMT, Barry Schatz [sorbetninja@gmail.com] said the following:
>>
>> And now, my obligatory rant about timezones. It's (mostly) a joke.
>> If we did away with timezones, this wouldn't be an issue. No time
>> changes, no wondering what time it is in another part of the world, and
>> greatly reduced jetlag would all be benefits. The weather reports
>> already have sunrise and sunset times, so it can't be that hard to add
>> in local high noon and midnight times as well. The workday in the
>> "Eastern" timezone would go from 12:00 through 20:00. Best of all, we
>> wouldn't have the nasty uptick in driving accidents and fatalities every
>> Spring when daylight savings time steals an hour.
>>
>
>  Something I've learned over the years is that in a debate of stupidity
> vs. intelligence, stupidity usually wins for quite intelligent reasons.
>
>      XXX
>    XXXXXXX
>   XXXXXXXXX
>  XXXXXXXXXX X
> XXXXXXXXXXXX XXX
>  Everyone    You
>   else
>
>  Being a Linux list, I think its safe to say that everyone on the list
> falls into the right side of the graph or at least in the right half of
> the graph.  Unfortunately, what happens is that the left side of the
> graph is full of complainers and people who don't want to
> learn/work/care. But strangely enough they also represent a large amount
> of money and a lot of voting power that is mostly controlled by the
> person on the TV who can wave a magic wand.  So it winds up being a
> stupid PR problem.  In order to appease the left part of the graph and
> keep the money and votes flowing, the right part has to "settle" and
> then we get stuck with crap.
>
> Many things have benefited from this property including:
>
>  VHS
>  Microsoft
>  AOL
>  Reality TV shows
>  George W. Bush
>  Florida
>
>  If you want to succeed in this world, you have to be able to leverage
> stupidity and try to avoid being part of a two-way decision.
> Unfortunately the tech industry is riddled with those.

This isn't necessarily a "world"-wide problem. I think it goes back
to the way America's democracy is set up: a system for the majority.
It's fair, in that most people get what they want most of the time,
but the problem is, in such a system, someone always looses. The
economy is structured this way too.

In an ideal America (or probably anywhere), both the economy and the
government would be structured so that everyone always gets enough—but
then, the people who currently get everything would have to be willing
to compromise (and not always get everything). One can always
dream...

Anyway, I agree with your statement, but I'd probably reword it to say
"If you want to succeed in this *America*, ..." ;)

--
Jonathan
http://jnw.name/

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Thursday, July 30, 2009

Re: [BLUG] Did ATT mess up your cell phone, too?

Great idea for a common problem and priced well FTW!

On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 06:23:46PM GMT, Jordan Thevenow-Harrison [jtth@jtth.net] said the following:
> No, silly. Clocky the robot clock!
> http://alumni.media.mit.edu/~nanda/projects/clocky.html

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
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Re: [BLUG] Did ATT mess up your cell phone, too?

No, silly. Clocky the robot clock!
http://alumni.media.mit.edu/~nanda/projects/clocky.html
--
Jordan Thevenow-Harrison
jtth@jtth.net

On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 13:28, Steven Black<blacks@indiana.edu> wrote:
> Jordan: Clocky? Is that a name for a pet rooster?
>
> -- Steven Black
>
> On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 11:29:30AM -0400, Jordan Thevenow-Harrison wrote:
>> Yeah, this happened to me. Luckily my Clocky woke me up at the right
>> time. It seems like someone must have actively changed something to
>> make this happen. Also, liabilities?
>> --
>> Jordan Thevenow-Harrison
>> jtth@jtth.net
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 11:26, Barry Schatz<sorbetninja@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Who in the Bloomington area noticed that their cell phone had the wrong
>> > time? I woke up and noticed that my cell phone (which serves as my alarm
>> > clock) was an hour behind my normal clock (a simple clock radio from
>> > Radio Shack). I went to my computer and tried date, ntpdate, date again,
>> > date -u, and I realized that I was late for work.
>> >
>> > My girlfriend and a bunch of people at Cook were affected, and a lot of
>> > people at my job we similarly bothered that the cell tower didn't send a
>> > reliable timestamp. It seems the Bloomington ATT cell tower is on CDT
>> > (GMT-5) instead of EDT (GMT-4). Who else got bit?
>> >
>> > And now, my obligatory rant about timezones. It's (mostly) a joke.
>> > If we did away with timezones, this wouldn't be an issue. No time
>> > changes, no wondering what time it is in another part of the world, and
>> > greatly reduced jetlag would all be benefits. The weather reports
>> > already have sunrise and sunset times, so it can't be that hard to add
>> > in local high noon and midnight times as well. The workday in the
>> > "Eastern" timezone would go from 12:00 through 20:00. Best of all, we
>> > wouldn't have the nasty uptick in driving accidents and fatalities every
>> > Spring when daylight savings time steals an hour.
>> >
>> > -Barry
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > BLUG mailing list
>> > BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> > http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> BLUG mailing list
>> BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD4DBQFKcdgw3nFUM4WW+o4RAmcIAJdFJoIAt+QWuk7WAgE+UQjwpRiCAJ48u7D5
> YHH145+DrPiFPtZDyj9Few==
> =oJCd
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>
>
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Re: [BLUG] Did ATT mess up your cell phone, too?

On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 03:26:19PM GMT, Barry Schatz [sorbetninja@gmail.com] said the following:
>
> And now, my obligatory rant about timezones. It's (mostly) a joke.
> If we did away with timezones, this wouldn't be an issue. No time
> changes, no wondering what time it is in another part of the world, and
> greatly reduced jetlag would all be benefits. The weather reports
> already have sunrise and sunset times, so it can't be that hard to add
> in local high noon and midnight times as well. The workday in the
> "Eastern" timezone would go from 12:00 through 20:00. Best of all, we
> wouldn't have the nasty uptick in driving accidents and fatalities every
> Spring when daylight savings time steals an hour.
>

Something I've learned over the years is that in a debate of stupidity
vs. intelligence, stupidity usually wins for quite intelligent reasons.

XXX
XXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXX X
XXXXXXXXXXXX XXX
Everyone You
else

Being a Linux list, I think its safe to say that everyone on the list
falls into the right side of the graph or at least in the right half of
the graph. Unfortunately, what happens is that the left side of the
graph is full of complainers and people who don't want to
learn/work/care. But strangely enough they also represent a large amount
of money and a lot of voting power that is mostly controlled by the
person on the TV who can wave a magic wand. So it winds up being a
stupid PR problem. In order to appease the left part of the graph and
keep the money and votes flowing, the right part has to "settle" and
then we get stuck with crap.

Many things have benefited from this property including:

VHS
Microsoft
AOL
Reality TV shows
George W. Bush
Florida

If you want to succeed in this world, you have to be able to leverage
stupidity and try to avoid being part of a two-way decision.
Unfortunately the tech industry is riddled with those.

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Re: [BLUG] Did ATT mess up your cell phone, too?

Jordan: Clocky? Is that a name for a pet rooster?

-- Steven Black

On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 11:29:30AM -0400, Jordan Thevenow-Harrison wrote:
> Yeah, this happened to me. Luckily my Clocky woke me up at the right
> time. It seems like someone must have actively changed something to
> make this happen. Also, liabilities?
> --
> Jordan Thevenow-Harrison
> jtth@jtth.net
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 11:26, Barry Schatz<sorbetninja@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Who in the Bloomington area noticed that their cell phone had the wrong
> > time? I woke up and noticed that my cell phone (which serves as my alarm
> > clock) was an hour behind my normal clock (a simple clock radio from
> > Radio Shack). I went to my computer and tried date, ntpdate, date again,
> > date -u, and I realized that I was late for work.
> >
> > My girlfriend and a bunch of people at Cook were affected, and a lot of
> > people at my job we similarly bothered that the cell tower didn't send a
> > reliable timestamp. It seems the Bloomington ATT cell tower is on CDT
> > (GMT-5) instead of EDT (GMT-4). Who else got bit?
> >
> > And now, my obligatory rant about timezones. It's (mostly) a joke.
> > If we did away with timezones, this wouldn't be an issue. No time
> > changes, no wondering what time it is in another part of the world, and
> > greatly reduced jetlag would all be benefits. The weather reports
> > already have sunrise and sunset times, so it can't be that hard to add
> > in local high noon and midnight times as well. The workday in the
> > "Eastern" timezone would go from 12:00 through 20:00. Best of all, we
> > wouldn't have the nasty uptick in driving accidents and fatalities every
> > Spring when daylight savings time steals an hour.
> >
> > -Barry
> > _______________________________________________
> > BLUG mailing list
> > BLUG@linuxfan.com
> > http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
> >
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Re: [BLUG] Did ATT mess up your cell phone, too?

Same here.  I always look at the cell phone to tell time, but my wife always relies on her alarm clock, so luckily we didn't oversleep.  Confused the hell out of me when I looked at my phone though.  Her's was the same as well.  1 hour behind. 

On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Jeremy L. Gaddis <jeremy@evilrouters.net> wrote:
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Cornn, Jessica
Spring<jcornn@indiana.edu> wrote:
> Mine did the same thing.  I think it happened sometime around 5am.  Fortunately, I was awake by then.

A friend (on AT&T) SMS'd me at 2:11AM to ask what time it was.  Both
his and his girlfriend's phones were showing 1:11AM.

<insert obligatory rant about how much AT&T sucks here>

--
Jeremy L. Gaddis
http://evilrouters.net/

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
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Re: [BLUG] Did ATT mess up your cell phone, too?

On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Kirk Gleason<kgleason@gmail.com> wrote:
> It happened to my wife and a bunch of people that I work with, but not me. She had her iPhone to pull time from the cell network, but I don't trust em, so I have my BB set to manual. Guess who was on time for work this morning? ;-)

>From the HT, on Twitter:

"Local woman late to work because of time glitch in her ATT phone gets
$25 credit from ATT."

--
Jeremy L. Gaddis
http://evilrouters.net/
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
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Re: [BLUG] Did ATT mess up your cell phone, too?

On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Cornn, Jessica
Spring<jcornn@indiana.edu> wrote:
> Mine did the same thing.  I think it happened sometime around 5am.  Fortunately, I was awake by then.

A friend (on AT&T) SMS'd me at 2:11AM to ask what time it was. Both
his and his girlfriend's phones were showing 1:11AM.

<insert obligatory rant about how much AT&T sucks here>

--
Jeremy L. Gaddis
http://evilrouters.net/

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
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Re: [BLUG] Did ATT mess up your cell phone, too?

It happened to my wife and a bunch of people that I work with, but not me. She had her iPhone to pull time from the cell network, but I don't trust em, so I have my BB set to manual. Guess who was on time for work this morning? ;-)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jordan Thevenow-Harrison" <jtth@jtth.net>
To: "Bloomington LINUX Users Group" <blug@cs.indiana.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 11:29:30 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [BLUG] Did ATT mess up your cell phone, too?

Yeah, this happened to me. Luckily my Clocky woke me up at the right
time. It seems like someone must have actively changed something to
make this happen. Also, liabilities?
--
Jordan Thevenow-Harrison
jtth@jtth.net

On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 11:26, Barry Schatz<sorbetninja@gmail.com> wrote:
> Who in the Bloomington area noticed that their cell phone had the wrong
> time? I woke up and noticed that my cell phone (which serves as my alarm
> clock) was an hour behind my normal clock (a simple clock radio from
> Radio Shack). I went to my computer and tried date, ntpdate, date again,
> date -u, and I realized that I was late for work.
>
> My girlfriend and a bunch of people at Cook were affected, and a lot of
> people at my job we similarly bothered that the cell tower didn't send a
> reliable timestamp. It seems the Bloomington ATT cell tower is on CDT
> (GMT-5) instead of EDT (GMT-4). Who else got bit?
>
> And now, my obligatory rant about timezones. It's (mostly) a joke.
> If we did away with timezones, this wouldn't be an issue. No time
> changes, no wondering what time it is in another part of the world, and
> greatly reduced jetlag would all be benefits. The weather reports
> already have sunrise and sunset times, so it can't be that hard to add
> in local high noon and midnight times as well. The workday in the
> "Eastern" timezone would go from 12:00 through 20:00. Best of all, we
> wouldn't have the nasty uptick in driving accidents and fatalities every
> Spring when daylight savings time steals an hour.
>
> -Barry
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

RE: [BLUG] Did ATT mess up your cell phone, too?

Mine did the same thing. I think it happened sometime around 5am. Fortunately, I was awake by then.
________________________________________
From: blug-bounces@cs.indiana.edu [blug-bounces@cs.indiana.edu] On Behalf Of Barry Schatz [sorbetninja@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 11:26 AM
To: Bloomington LINUX Users Group
Subject: [BLUG] Did ATT mess up your cell phone, too?

Who in the Bloomington area noticed that their cell phone had the wrong
time? I woke up and noticed that my cell phone (which serves as my alarm
clock) was an hour behind my normal clock (a simple clock radio from
Radio Shack). I went to my computer and tried date, ntpdate, date again,
date -u, and I realized that I was late for work.

My girlfriend and a bunch of people at Cook were affected, and a lot of
people at my job we similarly bothered that the cell tower didn't send a
reliable timestamp. It seems the Bloomington ATT cell tower is on CDT
(GMT-5) instead of EDT (GMT-4). Who else got bit?

And now, my obligatory rant about timezones. It's (mostly) a joke.
If we did away with timezones, this wouldn't be an issue. No time
changes, no wondering what time it is in another part of the world, and
greatly reduced jetlag would all be benefits. The weather reports
already have sunrise and sunset times, so it can't be that hard to add
in local high noon and midnight times as well. The workday in the
"Eastern" timezone would go from 12:00 through 20:00. Best of all, we
wouldn't have the nasty uptick in driving accidents and fatalities every
Spring when daylight savings time steals an hour.

-Barry
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
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Re: [BLUG] Did ATT mess up your cell phone, too?

Yeah, this happened to me. Luckily my Clocky woke me up at the right
time. It seems like someone must have actively changed something to
make this happen. Also, liabilities?
--
Jordan Thevenow-Harrison
jtth@jtth.net

On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 11:26, Barry Schatz<sorbetninja@gmail.com> wrote:
> Who in the Bloomington area noticed that their cell phone had the wrong
> time? I woke up and noticed that my cell phone (which serves as my alarm
> clock) was an hour behind my normal clock (a simple clock radio from
> Radio Shack). I went to my computer and tried date, ntpdate, date again,
> date -u, and I realized that I was late for work.
>
> My girlfriend and a bunch of people at Cook were affected, and a lot of
> people at my job we similarly bothered that the cell tower didn't send a
> reliable timestamp. It seems the Bloomington ATT cell tower is on CDT
> (GMT-5) instead of EDT (GMT-4). Who else got bit?
>
> And now, my obligatory rant about timezones. It's (mostly) a joke.
> If we did away with timezones, this wouldn't be an issue. No time
> changes, no wondering what time it is in another part of the world, and
> greatly reduced jetlag would all be benefits. The weather reports
> already have sunrise and sunset times, so it can't be that hard to add
> in local high noon and midnight times as well. The workday in the
> "Eastern" timezone would go from 12:00 through 20:00. Best of all, we
> wouldn't have the nasty uptick in driving accidents and fatalities every
> Spring when daylight savings time steals an hour.
>
> -Barry
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>
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Re: [BLUG] Did ATT mess up your cell phone, too?

Yep, mine's an hour off. Weird. Must be what Apple has been warning
people about when jail-breaking their iPhones! *rolls eyes*

On Thu, 2009-07-30 at 11:26 -0400, Barry Schatz wrote:
> Who in the Bloomington area noticed that their cell phone had the wrong
> time? I woke up and noticed that my cell phone (which serves as my alarm
> clock) was an hour behind my normal clock (a simple clock radio from
> Radio Shack). I went to my computer and tried date, ntpdate, date again,
> date -u, and I realized that I was late for work.
>
> My girlfriend and a bunch of people at Cook were affected, and a lot of
> people at my job we similarly bothered that the cell tower didn't send a
> reliable timestamp. It seems the Bloomington ATT cell tower is on CDT
> (GMT-5) instead of EDT (GMT-4). Who else got bit?
>
> And now, my obligatory rant about timezones. It's (mostly) a joke.
> If we did away with timezones, this wouldn't be an issue. No time
> changes, no wondering what time it is in another part of the world, and
> greatly reduced jetlag would all be benefits. The weather reports
> already have sunrise and sunset times, so it can't be that hard to add
> in local high noon and midnight times as well. The workday in the
> "Eastern" timezone would go from 12:00 through 20:00. Best of all, we
> wouldn't have the nasty uptick in driving accidents and fatalities every
> Spring when daylight savings time steals an hour.
>
> -Barry
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

_______________________________________________
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[BLUG] Did ATT mess up your cell phone, too?

Who in the Bloomington area noticed that their cell phone had the wrong
time? I woke up and noticed that my cell phone (which serves as my alarm
clock) was an hour behind my normal clock (a simple clock radio from
Radio Shack). I went to my computer and tried date, ntpdate, date again,
date -u, and I realized that I was late for work.

My girlfriend and a bunch of people at Cook were affected, and a lot of
people at my job we similarly bothered that the cell tower didn't send a
reliable timestamp. It seems the Bloomington ATT cell tower is on CDT
(GMT-5) instead of EDT (GMT-4). Who else got bit?

And now, my obligatory rant about timezones. It's (mostly) a joke.
If we did away with timezones, this wouldn't be an issue. No time
changes, no wondering what time it is in another part of the world, and
greatly reduced jetlag would all be benefits. The weather reports
already have sunrise and sunset times, so it can't be that hard to add
in local high noon and midnight times as well. The workday in the
"Eastern" timezone would go from 12:00 through 20:00. Best of all, we
wouldn't have the nasty uptick in driving accidents and fatalities every
Spring when daylight savings time steals an hour.

-Barry
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Thursday, July 23, 2009

Re: [BLUG] Digital TV tuners and Linux

An important thing to remember is that there are different types of
digital TV signals. The digital cable and the digital broadcast channels
use slightly different standards.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Video_Broadcasting

Of note, there are broadly DVB-S (for satellite), DVB-C (for cable) and
DVB-H (for "terrestrial").

I have a dual-analog/digital unit (I forget the model), however if you
read the documentation on it, it only supports DVB-H. In Bloomington,
this means it is only useful if I want to pick up PBS or Christian
stations. (We only use the analog side of it.)

To be able to pick up digital cable signals, you need something capable
of handling DVB-C signals. Specifically, you need something with
CableCARD support. You'll also need to sign up for a CableCARD from your
cable company.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CableCARD

I didn't know that you could get any remotely usable signals without a
CableCARD, so I'm impressed.

Cheers,
Steven Black

On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 02:13:10AM +0000, Mark Krenz wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 01:49:37AM GMT, Joe Auty [joe@netmusician.org] said the following:
> >
> > I have, with Myth.. I've used both an analog and digital tuner/receiver
> > with my Hauppauge capture card.
> >
>
> And you are using this with Comcast right? What digital settings
> should I be using? QAM 256? Broadcast?
>
> I've been able to record analogue cable just fine by doing:
>
> cat /dev/video0 > output.mpg
>
> And this was with a Hauppauge PVR-500
>
> But now I'm trying to do digital with a Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250, which
> doesn't have analogue support under Linux yet, but does have digital
> ClearQAM and ATSC support. I am able to tune in digital channels, but
> the quality is really poor and there are lots of artifacts. I'm
> wondering if I'm using the wrong settings or something.
>
> Does anyone have a card like this?
>
> --
> Mark Krenz
> Bloomington Linux Users Group
> http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

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Wednesday, July 22, 2009

Re: [BLUG] Digital TV tuners and Linux

Mark Krenz wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 01:49:37AM GMT, Joe Auty [joe@netmusician.org] said the following:
>> I have, with Myth.. I've used both an analog and digital tuner/receiver
>> with my Hauppauge capture card.
>>
>
> And you are using this with Comcast right? What digital settings
> should I be using? QAM 256? Broadcast?
>

I'm doing this with a Canadian satellite provider, actually. This
provider provides both analogue and digital channels, although many of
their digital channels cost extra money to subscribe to, so I have very
little. I'll have to double check my settings, but I wouldn't be
surprised if I was just using Broadcast.

> I've been able to record analogue cable just fine by doing:
>
> cat /dev/video0> output.mpg
>
> And this was with a Hauppauge PVR-500
>
> But now I'm trying to do digital with a Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250, which
> doesn't have analogue support under Linux yet, but does have digital
> ClearQAM and ATSC support. I am able to tune in digital channels, but
> the quality is really poor and there are lots of artifacts. I'm
> wondering if I'm using the wrong settings or something.
>
> Does anyone have a card like this?
>

What kind of cable to you have connected to your Hauppauge card from
your receiver?


--
Joe Auty
NetMusician: web publishing software for musicians
http://www.netmusician.org
joe@netmusician.org
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Re: [BLUG] Digital TV tuners and Linux

On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 01:49:37AM GMT, Joe Auty [joe@netmusician.org] said the following:
>
> I have, with Myth.. I've used both an analog and digital tuner/receiver
> with my Hauppauge capture card.
>

And you are using this with Comcast right? What digital settings
should I be using? QAM 256? Broadcast?

I've been able to record analogue cable just fine by doing:

cat /dev/video0 > output.mpg

And this was with a Hauppauge PVR-500

But now I'm trying to do digital with a Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250, which
doesn't have analogue support under Linux yet, but does have digital
ClearQAM and ATSC support. I am able to tune in digital channels, but
the quality is really poor and there are lots of artifacts. I'm
wondering if I'm using the wrong settings or something.

Does anyone have a card like this?

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
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Re: [BLUG] Digital TV tuners and Linux

Mark Krenz wrote:
> Anyone here have experience with digital TV tuners and Linux? Maybe
> someone has setup their digital tuner with Myth or something? I'm
> wondering what settings are working for you and if there are other
> programs besides Myth that have been used.

Perhaps I'm not understanding your question, but I've used an old
Hauppauge WinTV card in my desktop for years:

mark@mepis8:~$ lspci
[...]
00:09.0 Multimedia video controller: Brooktree Corporation Bt878 Video
Capture (rev 02)
00:09.1 Multimedia controller: Brooktree Corporation Bt878 Audio Capture
(rev 02)
[...]

Works great with tvtime.

http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/3104/tvcard.jpg

--
Mark Warner
MEPIS Linux
Registered Linux User #415318

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Re: [BLUG] Digital TV tuners and Linux

Mark Krenz wrote:
> Anyone here have experience with digital TV tuners and Linux? Maybe
> someone has setup their digital tuner with Myth or something? I'm
> wondering what settings are working for you and if there are other
> programs besides Myth that have been used.
>


I have, with Myth.. I've used both an analog and digital tuner/receiver
with my Hauppauge capture card.

--
Joe Auty
NetMusician: web publishing software for musicians
http://www.netmusician.org
joe@netmusician.org
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[BLUG] Digital TV tuners and Linux

Anyone here have experience with digital TV tuners and Linux? Maybe
someone has setup their digital tuner with Myth or something? I'm
wondering what settings are working for you and if there are other
programs besides Myth that have been used.

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
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Tuesday, July 21, 2009

Re: [BLUG] Managing a server via serial port (anyone have a spare serial cable?)

And they're dog-friendly! Even is s/he puts her/his paws up on the
counter to say "Hello." At least, last time I was in there they
were...

Ana

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 8:12 PM, Matt Standish<mstandish@gmail.com> wrote:
>> All of that being said, I bet you can find a Null Modem serial cable at Stansifer here in Bloomington. They tend to have a lof of that old school stuff kicking around there.
>
> They also have the equipment to build a cable if it is  rare.
>
>
> --
> Matt Standish
> www.mattstandish.org
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>

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Re: [BLUG] Managing a server via serial port (anyone have a spare serial cable?)

> All of that being said, I bet you can find a Null Modem serial cable at Stansifer here in Bloomington. They tend to have a lof of that old school stuff kicking around there.

They also have the equipment to build a cable if it is rare.


--
Matt Standish
www.mattstandish.org
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Re: [BLUG] Managing a server via serial port (anyone have a spare serial cable?)

I purchased a handy little adapter at Radio Shack (of all places). It is a null modem serial adapter, so it allows me to take a 9 pin DB9 serial cable and convert it to a Null Modem cable. What I like about it is that I can keep this adapter in my bag, and if I get stuck somewhere else, I can purchase a serial cable (you can find them at Best Buy from time to time even). I have been through the futile exercise of trying to find a Null Modem cable at 8pm in downtown Chicago before. Not fun.

All of that being said, I bet you can find a Null Modem serial cable at Stansifer here in Bloomington. They tend to have a lof of that old school stuff kicking around there.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Schatz" <sorbetninja@gmail.com>
To: "Bloomington LINUX Users Group" <blug@cs.indiana.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 10:37:45 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [BLUG] Managing a server via serial port (anyone have a spare serial cable?)

I figured I should ask the list for some advice.

A couple weeks ago a company next door to mine was moving, and giving
away a lot of outdated computer equipment. I grabbed a 2U VA Linux
server. After all, it's free (gratis) rackmount server and a piece of
Linux history. However, I soon found out that there's no way I can
actually get access to the darn thing. The BIOS is set to boot from the
hard drive first, and the VGA hardware is turned off. My only hope is
console access via the serial port.

So here's the problem: I don't have a 9-pin serial cable. I don't know
where I can get one short of ordering from Newegg or driving up to Fry's
in Indy. I also don't know if I need a null modem to make the connection
work. Do any of you on the list in the Bloomington area have such a cable?

Also, I'm aware that I can use screen to interface with the serial port.
If I recall, Kevin mentioned this bit of goodness:
stty 9600
screen /dev/ttyS0

Any other bits of advice to help me root this box? I really just want to
dban the drive and install a recent distro to make myself a fileserver.

Oh and one more thing: the hard drive is Ultra2 SCSI LVD. I can't easily
plug it into another machine to tamper with it.

-Barry
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Friday, July 17, 2009

Re: [BLUG] Managing a server via serial port (anyone have a spare serial cable?)

I was at the surplus store 2 months ago and didn't see any null modem
cables (though they did have a lot of other goodies). I'd check
Stansifer's—I'm almost positive they have them, and you can call
before heading down there. I have an old null modem cable around
somewhere, but I'm out of the country, and I think the cable might be
at my parents' house (far from Bloomington) anyway.

--
Jonathan

2009/7/16 Barry Schatz <sorbetninja@gmail.com>:
> Thank you Jordan, Jeremy and David for your offers. I'll need a serial
> cable in the future, so I might as well buy my own. I'll check IU
> Surplus first.
>
> Thank you Steven for possibly saving me a lot of grief and another trip
> to the store. Hopefully the surplus cables have been marked by their
> previous owners. I'll try minicom first, as it seems less of a hack than
> using screen. Fortunately most of my machines have serial ports, so I
> won't need a special adapter.
>
>
> -Barry
>
> Steven Black wrote:
>> You *will* need a Null-Modem cable. If you're getting cables second
>> hand, try to look for one that someone has written "NULL" on as they
>> do make pass-through 9-pin serial cables that are female on both ends.
>> (These cables were fairly common when using older KVM switches. 9 pin
>> pass-through cables were required for serial mice connections.)
>>
>> Without the hand-writing it is frequently impossible to tell a
>> null-modem cable from a pass-through cable, so I recommend you use a
>> sharpie if you buy a cable new.
>>
>> If the available computers nearby don't have a serial port, you'll want
>> to get a USB to Serial adaptor. I think at this point most of them are
>> supported by Linux, but I've managed to avoid needing them.
>>
>> You should have full access to the BIOS/CMOS from the serial port. It is
>> a fun experience watching a machine perform POST over the serial port.
>>
>> Minicom works well for serial access. I would go that route first, and
>> avoid the stty/screen bit if possible. Also, expect the 115k bit rate.
>> If it doesn't work, drop down to a lower speed. The BIOS is likely
>> configured for just one bit rate, though the console login may be
>> configured to accept multiple.
>>
>> I suggest letting it boot up then playing around with the bit rate and
>> pressing 'enter' until the login prompt shows up. The getty shouldn't
>> change bitrates on you unless you send break (CTRL-A F in Minicom).
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Steven Black
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 10:48:16AM -0400, David Ernst wrote:
>>
>>> You might also try the IU surplus store.  I finally went there a month
>>> or so ago, and among the weird collection of stuff they have is a pile
>>> of cables for (iirc) $1 each.  Doesn't matter what the cable is, it's
>>> the same price.
>>>
>>> http://www.indiana.edu/~surplus/
>>>
>>> I also might have such a cable if none of these other leads are making
>>> it.  But I'd rather not even dig through my cable box unless I know
>>> that you'll need it.  :)
>>>
>>> david
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 10:42:34AM -0400, Jordan Thevenow-Harrison wrote:
>>>
>>>> PC Max sells them. If they, for some insane reason, are out, I have one I
>>>> can lend you. I've never used screen for that, but have had success with
>>>> minicom :)
>>>> --
>>>> Jordan Thevenow-Harrison
>>>> jtth@jtth.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 16, 2009, at 10:37 AM, Barry Schatz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I figured I should ask the list for some advice.
>>>>>
>>>>> A couple weeks ago a company next door to mine was moving, and giving
>>>>> away a lot of outdated computer equipment. I grabbed a 2U VA Linux
>>>>> server. After all, it's free (gratis) rackmount server and a piece of
>>>>> Linux history. However, I soon found out that there's no way I can
>>>>> actually get access to the darn thing. The BIOS is set to boot from
>>>>> the
>>>>> hard drive first, and the VGA hardware is turned off. My only hope is
>>>>> console access via the serial port.
>>>>>
>>>>> So here's the problem: I don't have a 9-pin serial cable. I don't know
>>>>> where I can get one short of ordering from Newegg or driving up to
>>>>> Fry's
>>>>> in Indy. I also don't know if I need a null modem to make the
>>>>> connection
>>>>> work. Do any of you on the list in the Bloomington area have such a
>>>>> cable?
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, I'm aware that I can use screen to interface with the serial
>>>>> port.
>>>>> If I recall, Kevin mentioned this bit of goodness:
>>>>>    stty 9600
>>>>>    screen /dev/ttyS0
>>>>>
>>>>> Any other bits of advice to help me root this box? I really just want
>>>>> to
>>>>> dban the drive and install a recent distro to make myself a
>>>>> fileserver.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh and one more thing: the hard drive is Ultra2 SCSI LVD. I can't
>>>>> easily
>>>>> plug it into another machine to tamper with it.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Barry
>>>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BLUG mailing list
>> BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>

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Thursday, July 16, 2009

Re: [BLUG] Managing a server via serial port (anyone have a spare serial cable?)

Thank you Jordan, Jeremy and David for your offers. I'll need a serial
cable in the future, so I might as well buy my own. I'll check IU
Surplus first.

Thank you Steven for possibly saving me a lot of grief and another trip
to the store. Hopefully the surplus cables have been marked by their
previous owners. I'll try minicom first, as it seems less of a hack than
using screen. Fortunately most of my machines have serial ports, so I
won't need a special adapter.


-Barry

Steven Black wrote:
> You *will* need a Null-Modem cable. If you're getting cables second
> hand, try to look for one that someone has written "NULL" on as they
> do make pass-through 9-pin serial cables that are female on both ends.
> (These cables were fairly common when using older KVM switches. 9 pin
> pass-through cables were required for serial mice connections.)
>
> Without the hand-writing it is frequently impossible to tell a
> null-modem cable from a pass-through cable, so I recommend you use a
> sharpie if you buy a cable new.
>
> If the available computers nearby don't have a serial port, you'll want
> to get a USB to Serial adaptor. I think at this point most of them are
> supported by Linux, but I've managed to avoid needing them.
>
> You should have full access to the BIOS/CMOS from the serial port. It is
> a fun experience watching a machine perform POST over the serial port.
>
> Minicom works well for serial access. I would go that route first, and
> avoid the stty/screen bit if possible. Also, expect the 115k bit rate.
> If it doesn't work, drop down to a lower speed. The BIOS is likely
> configured for just one bit rate, though the console login may be
> configured to accept multiple.
>
> I suggest letting it boot up then playing around with the bit rate and
> pressing 'enter' until the login prompt shows up. The getty shouldn't
> change bitrates on you unless you send break (CTRL-A F in Minicom).
>
> Cheers,
> Steven Black
>
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 10:48:16AM -0400, David Ernst wrote:
>
>> You might also try the IU surplus store. I finally went there a month
>> or so ago, and among the weird collection of stuff they have is a pile
>> of cables for (iirc) $1 each. Doesn't matter what the cable is, it's
>> the same price.
>>
>> http://www.indiana.edu/~surplus/
>>
>> I also might have such a cable if none of these other leads are making
>> it. But I'd rather not even dig through my cable box unless I know
>> that you'll need it. :)
>>
>> david
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 10:42:34AM -0400, Jordan Thevenow-Harrison wrote:
>>
>>> PC Max sells them. If they, for some insane reason, are out, I have one I
>>> can lend you. I've never used screen for that, but have had success with
>>> minicom :)
>>> --
>>> Jordan Thevenow-Harrison
>>> jtth@jtth.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 16, 2009, at 10:37 AM, Barry Schatz wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I figured I should ask the list for some advice.
>>>>
>>>> A couple weeks ago a company next door to mine was moving, and giving
>>>> away a lot of outdated computer equipment. I grabbed a 2U VA Linux
>>>> server. After all, it's free (gratis) rackmount server and a piece of
>>>> Linux history. However, I soon found out that there's no way I can
>>>> actually get access to the darn thing. The BIOS is set to boot from
>>>> the
>>>> hard drive first, and the VGA hardware is turned off. My only hope is
>>>> console access via the serial port.
>>>>
>>>> So here's the problem: I don't have a 9-pin serial cable. I don't know
>>>> where I can get one short of ordering from Newegg or driving up to
>>>> Fry's
>>>> in Indy. I also don't know if I need a null modem to make the
>>>> connection
>>>> work. Do any of you on the list in the Bloomington area have such a
>>>> cable?
>>>>
>>>> Also, I'm aware that I can use screen to interface with the serial
>>>> port.
>>>> If I recall, Kevin mentioned this bit of goodness:
>>>> stty 9600
>>>> screen /dev/ttyS0
>>>>
>>>> Any other bits of advice to help me root this box? I really just want
>>>> to
>>>> dban the drive and install a recent distro to make myself a
>>>> fileserver.
>>>>
>>>> Oh and one more thing: the hard drive is Ultra2 SCSI LVD. I can't
>>>> easily
>>>> plug it into another machine to tamper with it.
>>>>
>>>> -Barry
>>>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>

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Re: [BLUG] Managing a server via serial port (anyone have a spare serial cable?)

You *will* need a Null-Modem cable. If you're getting cables second
hand, try to look for one that someone has written "NULL" on as they
do make pass-through 9-pin serial cables that are female on both ends.
(These cables were fairly common when using older KVM switches. 9 pin
pass-through cables were required for serial mice connections.)

Without the hand-writing it is frequently impossible to tell a
null-modem cable from a pass-through cable, so I recommend you use a
sharpie if you buy a cable new.

If the available computers nearby don't have a serial port, you'll want
to get a USB to Serial adaptor. I think at this point most of them are
supported by Linux, but I've managed to avoid needing them.

You should have full access to the BIOS/CMOS from the serial port. It is
a fun experience watching a machine perform POST over the serial port.

Minicom works well for serial access. I would go that route first, and
avoid the stty/screen bit if possible. Also, expect the 115k bit rate.
If it doesn't work, drop down to a lower speed. The BIOS is likely
configured for just one bit rate, though the console login may be
configured to accept multiple.

I suggest letting it boot up then playing around with the bit rate and
pressing 'enter' until the login prompt shows up. The getty shouldn't
change bitrates on you unless you send break (CTRL-A F in Minicom).

Cheers,
Steven Black

On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 10:48:16AM -0400, David Ernst wrote:
> You might also try the IU surplus store. I finally went there a month
> or so ago, and among the weird collection of stuff they have is a pile
> of cables for (iirc) $1 each. Doesn't matter what the cable is, it's
> the same price.
>
> http://www.indiana.edu/~surplus/
>
> I also might have such a cable if none of these other leads are making
> it. But I'd rather not even dig through my cable box unless I know
> that you'll need it. :)
>
> david
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 10:42:34AM -0400, Jordan Thevenow-Harrison wrote:
> > PC Max sells them. If they, for some insane reason, are out, I have one I
> > can lend you. I've never used screen for that, but have had success with
> > minicom :)
> > --
> > Jordan Thevenow-Harrison
> > jtth@jtth.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jul 16, 2009, at 10:37 AM, Barry Schatz wrote:
> >
> >> I figured I should ask the list for some advice.
> >>
> >> A couple weeks ago a company next door to mine was moving, and giving
> >> away a lot of outdated computer equipment. I grabbed a 2U VA Linux
> >> server. After all, it's free (gratis) rackmount server and a piece of
> >> Linux history. However, I soon found out that there's no way I can
> >> actually get access to the darn thing. The BIOS is set to boot from
> >> the
> >> hard drive first, and the VGA hardware is turned off. My only hope is
> >> console access via the serial port.
> >>
> >> So here's the problem: I don't have a 9-pin serial cable. I don't know
> >> where I can get one short of ordering from Newegg or driving up to
> >> Fry's
> >> in Indy. I also don't know if I need a null modem to make the
> >> connection
> >> work. Do any of you on the list in the Bloomington area have such a
> >> cable?
> >>
> >> Also, I'm aware that I can use screen to interface with the serial
> >> port.
> >> If I recall, Kevin mentioned this bit of goodness:
> >> stty 9600
> >> screen /dev/ttyS0
> >>
> >> Any other bits of advice to help me root this box? I really just want
> >> to
> >> dban the drive and install a recent distro to make myself a
> >> fileserver.
> >>
> >> Oh and one more thing: the hard drive is Ultra2 SCSI LVD. I can't
> >> easily
> >> plug it into another machine to tamper with it.
> >>
> >> -Barry

--
Steven Black <blacks@indiana.edu> / KeyID: 8596FA8E
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