Thursday, December 31, 2009

Re: [BLUG] BLUG Digest, Vol 22, Issue 9

I am an xterm guy. I use something like this at startup.

My nine window startup script below! Give it a try.
---------------
#! /bin/bash
cd $HOME
xterm -sl 10000 +sb -fg black -bg white -title HOME -geometry +0+0 &
xterm -sl 10000 +sb -fg black -bg white -title HOME -geometry +0+380 &
xterm -sl 10000 +sb -fg black -bg white -title HOME -geometry +0+740 &
xterm -sl 10000 +sb -fg black -bg white -title HOME -geometry +510+0 &
xterm -sl 10000 +sb -fg black -bg white -title HOME -geometry +510+380 &
xterm -sl 10000 +sb -fg black -bg white -title HOME -geometry +510+740 &
xterm -sl 10000 +sb -fg black -bg white -title HOME -geometry +1020+0 &
xterm -sl 10000 +sb -fg black -bg white -title HOME -geometry +1020+380 &
xterm -sl 10000 +sb -fg black -bg white -title HOME -geometry +1020+740 &
exit


On Dec 30, 2009, at 12:00 PM, blug-request@cs.indiana.edu wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. What size terminal do you use? (Mark Krenz)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 14:52:52 +0000
> From: Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org>
> Subject: [BLUG] What size terminal do you use?
> To: blug@cs.indiana.edu
> Message-ID: <20091230145252.GW14381@arvo.suso.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> Quick poll. If you use some specific size for your terminal (xterm,
> aterm, gnome-terminal, konsole, etc.), what size do you use and why?
> Also, curious about what terminal you use specifically these days.
>
> Myself, I usually use a terminal that is 160x60, which is way
> oversized and sometimes presents problems on smaller screens like a
> laptop screen or when I want to use a bigger font. But I like the
> space and I often have lists of whatever data on my screen that I need
> to compare. I've thought about making 160x50 my standard though
> recently. I use konsole now, and gnome-terminal before that. Prior to
> that I used aterm for a long time because of its speed.
>
> --
> Mark Krenz
> Bloomington Linux Users Group
> http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>
>
> End of BLUG Digest, Vol 22, Issue 9
> ***********************************

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Wednesday, December 30, 2009

Re: [BLUG] What size terminal do you use?

I use ROXTerm at 80x24, just because that size doesn't seem too big or
too small. I use a smallish font so it doesn't take up too much space
on my netbook screen--less than ⅔ of both the horizontal and vertical
space. I also use a gtk theme with very short tabs to save on screen
real estate.

ROXTerm is based on gnome-terminal (so's also a familiar-feeling
tabbed gtk2 terminal), but seems to be faster and has much better
options for configuration (and also a couple bugs). It's also
designed to go with other ROX software, such as ROX filer and ROX's
session manager, both of which I use.

--
Jonathan

2009/12/30 Steven Black <blacks@indiana.edu>:
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 02:52:52PM +0000, Mark Krenz wrote:
>>   Quick poll. If you use some specific size for your terminal (xterm,
>> aterm, gnome-terminal, konsole, etc.), what size do you use and why?
>> Also, curious about what terminal you use specifically these days.
>
> I currently use Konsole.
>
> I have the ncurses-term package installed, so my TERM is set to
> "konsole". I like well defined terminal characteristics, so I don't
> like terminals to use 'xterm' unless they're 100% xterm compatible.
> Neither gnome-terminal nor konsole is 100% compatible. (To be 100%
> compatible you need (1) Tektronix mode, and (2) to fail under the same
> circumstances as xterm.) Additionally, using the stock 'xterm' requires
> that apps either ignore the terminfo characteristics or are limited to
> 16 colors. A proper terminfo would list whether you support extended
> colors like xterm-256 or xterm-88.
>
> I enjoy roguelike games, and poorly defined terminals are the bane of
> nice roguelike games.
>
> In the office, I use terminals that are 24/25 rows, and either 80
> columns or a little more to fill. (10 pt. font, usually two windows at
> the bottom of the screen, with a browser and IRC/IM/etc client filling
> the upper half of that monitor)
>
> At home, where the light is more variable and the distance to the laptop
> tends to also be more variable than my seating at work, I have settings
> which are designed to be gentle on my eyes: Monospace font at 14 pt,
> between 80 and about 94 columns (I rarely maximize the width), and it is
> usually maximized vertically giving me 37 rows.
>
> I also leverage custom color sets, due to my inability to easily read
> dark blue on black (which always seems painfully popular in color
> apps). I use custom dark-background colors, and a custom inverted
> color set. The inverted color set is easier on my eyes in low-power
> settings on my laptop, (I can read it with the display set to dimmest
> with plenty of ambient light), and is specifically designed so that I
> can continue using apps which become illegible if you simply swap the
> default foreground/background colors.
>
> Back in my youth, I'd use SVGATextMode to get Linux consoles in hi-res
> text modes. These days I figure if I'm not kind on my eyes early,
> they'll only give me more trouble later.
>
> While working, I use tabs and more than one terminal emulator, but when
> I'm off-work I'm 100% GNU Screen with a single terminal emulator.
>
> Cheers,
> Steven Black
>
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>

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Re: [BLUG] New Years Countdown timer

I ran the script and found (1) I didn't have figlet installed, and (2) it
suggested I install either figlet or toilet. I installed them both, but
I think I like toilet's default letters better.

In fact, here's my extended edition of the command (wrapped to be easy
to read, but with line-continuation so you can copy/paste):

while V=$((`date +%s -d"2010-01-01"`-`date +%s`)); do \
if [ $V == 0 ]; then \
toilet -f smmono12 --gay 'Happy New Year!'; \
break; \
else \
clear; \
toilet -f bigmono12 --gay $V; \
sleep 1; \
fi; \
done

I think the --gay toilet is just thing the any New Year's bash.

Cheers,
Steven Black

On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 06:43:48PM +0000, Mark Krenz wrote:
>
>
> This is what I just posted to the climagic account on twitter and
> identi.ca:
>
> while V=$((`date +%s -d"2010-01-01"`-`date +%s`));do if [ $V == 0 ];then figlet 'Happy New Year!';break;else figlet $V;sleep 1;clear;fi;done
>
> Of course I was limited to 140 characters. Anyways, I thought some
> people here might appreciate this little snippet.

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Re: [BLUG] What size terminal do you use?

On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 02:52:52PM +0000, Mark Krenz wrote:
> Quick poll. If you use some specific size for your terminal (xterm,
> aterm, gnome-terminal, konsole, etc.), what size do you use and why?
> Also, curious about what terminal you use specifically these days.

I currently use Konsole.

I have the ncurses-term package installed, so my TERM is set to
"konsole". I like well defined terminal characteristics, so I don't
like terminals to use 'xterm' unless they're 100% xterm compatible.
Neither gnome-terminal nor konsole is 100% compatible. (To be 100%
compatible you need (1) Tektronix mode, and (2) to fail under the same
circumstances as xterm.) Additionally, using the stock 'xterm' requires
that apps either ignore the terminfo characteristics or are limited to
16 colors. A proper terminfo would list whether you support extended
colors like xterm-256 or xterm-88.

I enjoy roguelike games, and poorly defined terminals are the bane of
nice roguelike games.

In the office, I use terminals that are 24/25 rows, and either 80
columns or a little more to fill. (10 pt. font, usually two windows at
the bottom of the screen, with a browser and IRC/IM/etc client filling
the upper half of that monitor)

At home, where the light is more variable and the distance to the laptop
tends to also be more variable than my seating at work, I have settings
which are designed to be gentle on my eyes: Monospace font at 14 pt,
between 80 and about 94 columns (I rarely maximize the width), and it is
usually maximized vertically giving me 37 rows.

I also leverage custom color sets, due to my inability to easily read
dark blue on black (which always seems painfully popular in color
apps). I use custom dark-background colors, and a custom inverted
color set. The inverted color set is easier on my eyes in low-power
settings on my laptop, (I can read it with the display set to dimmest
with plenty of ambient light), and is specifically designed so that I
can continue using apps which become illegible if you simply swap the
default foreground/background colors.

Back in my youth, I'd use SVGATextMode to get Linux consoles in hi-res
text modes. These days I figure if I'm not kind on my eyes early,
they'll only give me more trouble later.

While working, I use tabs and more than one terminal emulator, but when
I'm off-work I'm 100% GNU Screen with a single terminal emulator.

Cheers,
Steven Black

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Re: [BLUG] What size terminal do you use?

On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 09:52:52 -0500, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:

> Quick poll. If you use some specific size for your terminal (xterm,
> aterm, gnome-terminal, konsole, etc.), what size do you use and why?
> Also, curious about what terminal you use specifically these days.

I tend to use the most native terminal for the Environment in which I am
working. If that is something like XFCE, then I use the XFCE Terminal, if
KDE, then I use Konsole, if something like MaXX or Mwm, then I use the
xterm(1). The only one on which I really both to adjust the fonts is the
xterm, where they are almost always a little too small. I usually use
something around a 10 point font. I like to keep my terminal width
constant to about 80 columns, but I will scale the height up and down
depending on the task at hand. As I almost never edit directly in the
terminal, I don't care so much about that.

The reason I don't usually adjust the fonts explicitly is because I set
default fonts in my environment that suits. Usually this is something like
the Luxi family of fonts at 10 points. I don't know what DPI my monitor is
at though, but I am running 1680x1050.

Aaron W. Hsu

--
A professor is one who talks in someone else's sleep.
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[BLUG] New Years Countdown timer

This is what I just posted to the climagic account on twitter and
identi.ca:

while V=$((`date +%s -d"2010-01-01"`-`date +%s`));do if [ $V == 0 ];then figlet 'Happy New Year!';break;else figlet $V;sleep 1;clear;fi;done

Of course I was limited to 140 characters. Anyways, I thought some
people here might appreciate this little snippet.

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
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Re: [BLUG] test

Ahh cool. Party on! Happy New Year!

On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 05:40:28PM GMT, Shei, Shing-Shong [shei@cs.indiana.edu] said the following:
> Because we were doing some system maintenance and the mail server's
> sendmail was turned off for a while. :-) Happy New Year!
>
> > Sorry, just testing the list, it was slow earlier (1 hour delay) and I
> > was wondering why.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>

--
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Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
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Re: [BLUG] test

Because we were doing some system maintenance and the mail server's
sendmail was turned off for a while. :-) Happy New Year!

> Sorry, just testing the list, it was slow earlier (1 hour delay) and I
> was wondering why.
>
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[BLUG] test

Sorry, just testing the list, it was slow earlier (1 hour delay) and I
was wondering why.

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
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Re: [BLUG] What size terminal do you use?

> What size terminal do you use?
>
I use Konsole at 80x51 with Dejavu Sans Mono 10pt, with antialiasing on. I use
vim for most editing, and set it to wrap at 78 characters. Occasionally I
will make it wider if I am doing something which has ugly wrapping or
truncating, like looking at top with full command listings, or looking at
mysql output.
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[BLUG] What size terminal do you use?

Quick poll. If you use some specific size for your terminal (xterm,
aterm, gnome-terminal, konsole, etc.), what size do you use and why?
Also, curious about what terminal you use specifically these days.

Myself, I usually use a terminal that is 160x60, which is way
oversized and sometimes presents problems on smaller screens like a
laptop screen or when I want to use a bigger font. But I like the
space and I often have lists of whatever data on my screen that I need
to compare. I've thought about making 160x50 my standard though
recently. I use konsole now, and gnome-terminal before that. Prior to
that I used aterm for a long time because of its speed.

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
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Monday, December 28, 2009

Re: [BLUG] My KDExperience

On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 09:07:07PM +0000, Mark Krenz wrote:
> - Places that can use some improvement or that I don't like. -
>
> 1. Some settings not organized well. Even though KDE has lots of
> configurability, its been a bit difficult to find some settings that
> seem like they should be easy to find. The interface for changing
> settings is inconsistent and I'm still not sure in what places I need to
> single click and what places I need to double click.

I'm not sure if this is related to the single/double click setting. I've
seen this before, and I suspect it is a matter of some applications not
acknowledging the single/double click setting.

> 2. Taskbar applications are shown for all desktops. In other words,
> instead of the application taskbar showing only the items for the
> current desktop, it shows it for all desktops. Maybe someone will be
> able to help me with this as I haven't found a solution for this yet.
> It seems like this would be an easy thing to set, but apparently its
> not. This probably falls under my #1 gripe as well.

This is set in the "Task Manager Settings." I find the easiest way to
get to this menu is to right-click in the task manager area before I've
opened any windows.

> 3. Lock desktop widget is too big. This is the OCD part of me, but the
> widget for locking the screen is made for a lock icon and a logout icon.
> I rarely logout of my desktop when I leave for the day, but there is a
> way to disable the displaying of the logout icon. But when you do that,
> the widget still takes up the same amount of space.

That seems like a bug in the widget. Note that this isn't trouble
resizing the widget, it is that the footprint remains the same size even
if you disable one of the icons.

> 4. Konsole doesn't have a setting in the GUI for terminal geometry and
> the --geometry option doesn't seem to work as advertised. This really
> annoys me because its 2009 and some of the most basic options for X
> windows are being ignored by people who should know better.

Hmm. Some simple testing indicates that options are not quite parsed as
I would expect. I think we may be seeing some sort of issue with single
launch vs. multiple launch. --profile isn't working as expected from
within an existing konsole.

#5 was removed? It wasn't listed.

> 6. Kmadness. Why does every application for KDE have to have to start
> with a K. I guess its kinda like how many x applications start with an x
> for x windows. While it might make it nice for discovering new commands
> by using tab completition, it gets mundane after a while. I feel like
> my desktop is a big pun.

I hear you. The GNOME folks have their 'G' in their names, the KDE folks
usually have a 'K' in their names. It appears right now the G in the
names of GNOME apps may not be quite as popular as the K in the KDE
names.

In my mind, this sort of naming scheme does nothing but provide a larger
name space for applications. It can be useful for that alone, but it is
not something actually useful for the end-user.

> 7. Fonts aren't as good. I thought this was more X specific, but I
> guess not. Some of the fonts that KDE uses by default are not as smooth
> or as readable as the ones I was using in Gnome. I realize that the
> fonts can be changed, but changing fonts is generally something I leave
> alone because you're never sure whether the font you choose is going to
> have all the charcters or cause other issues like overflowing the
> boundary area for the text.

Sounds like you need to tweak your font anti-aliasing.
In "System Settings" -> "Appearance" -> "Fonts" -> "Use anti-aliasing".

I use Kubuntu, and mine is set to "System settings". I'm not exactly
sure where these "system settings" are defined, though. (As far as I
know it is pulling system settings set when I configured things in
KDE3.)

I've never had issues with applications breaking when I changed the
system fonts. (I've changed it before.) KDE makes it easy to adjust all
the fonts together, which is handy.

> 8. Some weird issues with Konsole. Sometimes when I select text in
> Konsole, it doesn't render the whole window and it seems as if the
> window closed, but it just needs to be redrawn by moving it or switching
> desktops. This might be related to compositing.

I don't have that issue... but then I don't use compositing.

> Right now the desktop still feels a bit strange because I'm getting used
> to things like having to press Ctrl+shift+n for a new terminal tab
> instead of Ctrl+Shift+t. But those are minor things that will pass.
> We've definately come a long ways since the days of the FVWM window
> manager, which could do pretty much anything you wanted, but you had to
> modify a text file to do it and then reload FVWM.

You can easily tweak the keymap in konsole. It is handy to (for
instance) disable F1 for help if you find you accidentally press it when
reaching for ESC.

In fact, you can tweak the keys in pretty much any KDE application. I
recently wanted to disable Alt-Left-Arrow in Firefox and, to my dismay,
I found I couldn't change any of the key-mappings. I'm used to KDE
allowing me to get things to work the way I want.

Cheers,
Steven Black

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[BLUG] My KDExperience

Recently, I decided to try using KDE after using Gnome for several
years and FVWM prior to that. I have used KDE in the past, even since
version 1.0, but I never really spent too much time in it before moving
back.

Now I've had a week or two to get used to it I can appreciate more of
what is there in the latest versions. Keep in mind that this overview
mostly covers things with the default setups, I know its possible to
correct or enhance things with KDE or Gnome or Xfce or whatever your
obscure desktop manager is, but there is a lot to be said for having
things available and ready to go from the start.


- Here are some good things I've found about using KDE -

1. Customization - This is probably the number one gripe I have with Gnome.
Part of what makes the open source world of computing great is that you
can customize things exactly the way you want. Gnome has gotten away
from this in recent years and I've heard that KDE has been pushing this
more. Its definately true, with the default KDE setup, you can
customize exactly how windows work. For instance, if I want to have a
specific class of windows not take priority for focus of the mouse
pointer, I can do that. One place we're I've had to use this is when
watching a movie or something on my desktop, I'll have the movie playing
on one monitor and with the default settings, if I switch desktops, the
movie will sometimes grab mouse focus and I don't like that,
fortunately, KDE provides the facilities to easily change that.

There are many other places where this is the case too, for instance
in the Konsole terminal emulator, you can easily override the keyboard
layout just within Konsole. So if you want to make F1 do something else
inside Konsole than Kate (text editor) does, you can do that easily.

2. Desktop widgets. I'm a gkrellm man. I usually put my gkrellm
monitoring display over on the side of the desk and leave it alone. But
with KDE widgets, I haven't even started gkrellm yet. I guess I just
found that having one CPU graph is good enough and the LCD weather
display is nice. Plus, having RSS feeds that don't fall into the window
class category makes sense to me.

3. Quickly access an application with Alt+F2 (using Krunner). At first I
thought that the KDE application menu was a bit clunky to use, but then
I realized that the real power comes with using Alt+F2 and then typing
in part of the name of the application you want. Its much better than
Gnome's program execution window as it quickly displays icons and
descriptions of programs you might want. I haven't had to do it yet,
but Krunner can be configured to be command oriented or task oriented.

4. This is not that important really but desktop backgrounds can be set
differently on different screens of a multi head display. Thus freeing
you from having to stretch a 1024x768 res picture in weird ways or
making your own. I can't believe that Gnome hasn't tacked this one yet.
Seems like it would be easy to do.

5. Although I don't use it much, the file manager in KDE is nice and
fast. Gnome's isn't too bad, but the KDE one offers more options and
seems more powerful, so I will probably end up using it more.

6. Last but not least. KDE is fast and snappy. I didn't really expect it
so be slow, but it definately doesn't have slowness problems. Gnome
isn't really slow either, but its nice to know that both desktops are
strong in this area, which no doubt is a major draw to Linux for people
seeking an alternate desktop environment.


- Places that can use some improvement or that I don't like. -

1. Some settings not organized well. Even though KDE has lots of
configurability, its been a bit difficult to find some settings that
seem like they should be easy to find. The interface for changing
settings is inconsistent and I'm still not sure in what places I need to
single click and what places I need to double click.

2. Taskbar applications are shown for all desktops. In other words,
instead of the application taskbar showing only the items for the
current desktop, it shows it for all desktops. Maybe someone will be
able to help me with this as I haven't found a solution for this yet.
It seems like this would be an easy thing to set, but apparently its
not. This probably falls under my #1 gripe as well.

3. Lock desktop widget is too big. This is the OCD part of me, but the
widget for locking the screen is made for a lock icon and a logout icon.
I rarely logout of my desktop when I leave for the day, but there is a
way to disable the displaying of the logout icon. But when you do that,
the widget still takes up the same amount of space.

4. Konsole doesn't have a setting in the GUI for terminal geometry and
the --geometry option doesn't seem to work as advertised. This really
annoys me because its 2009 and some of the most basic options for X
windows are being ignored by people who should know better.

6. Kmadness. Why does every application for KDE have to have to start
with a K. I guess its kinda like how many x applications start with an x
for x windows. While it might make it nice for discovering new commands
by using tab completition, it gets mundane after a while. I feel like
my desktop is a big pun.

7. Fonts aren't as good. I thought this was more X specific, but I
guess not. Some of the fonts that KDE uses by default are not as smooth
or as readable as the ones I was using in Gnome. I realize that the
fonts can be changed, but changing fonts is generally something I leave
alone because you're never sure whether the font you choose is going to
have all the charcters or cause other issues like overflowing the
boundary area for the text.

8. Some weird issues with Konsole. Sometimes when I select text in
Konsole, it doesn't render the whole window and it seems as if the
window closed, but it just needs to be redrawn by moving it or switching
desktops. This might be related to compositing.

Right now the desktop still feels a bit strange because I'm getting used
to things like having to press Ctrl+shift+n for a new terminal tab
instead of Ctrl+Shift+t. But those are minor things that will pass.
We've definately come a long ways since the days of the FVWM window
manager, which could do pretty much anything you wanted, but you had to
modify a text file to do it and then reload FVWM.

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
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Tuesday, December 22, 2009

Re: [BLUG] Fwd: possible causes of segfaults

Your ld's got segment fault inside the shared library libc-2.9.so which,
in generally, is a relatively bug-free piece of software as it's so
important that essentially every single piece of program will call it.
It should have been loaded and resides in the memory and just that 7
invocation of ld's (since the PIDs are different) segfault'ed at
different points in libc makes me wonder if somehow the memory is at
fault. So it might not be a bad idea to run a memory test program (such
as memtest86+) to check your memory. Have a good holiday! --Shing-Shong

> Hiya,
>
> I just installed a new file / computation server at my work, and a few
> days into its tenure, I've started noticing some segfaults.
>
> For instance, I was running a bunch of image processing jobs, and
> ImageMagick's "convert" program segfaulted. I ran it again on the
> same data, and it did fine. So I'm wondering if I have bad hardware,
> or bad libraries, or what?
>
> Possible causes of segmentation faults that I know of:
> Hardware --- could be very random and difficult to find, might need to
> totally shut down the server and run a memory tester for days in order
> to find.
>
> Filesystem corruption --- should be reproducible, right? if "convert"
> segfaults once, it should do it again...
>
> Libraries / os problems --- should be reproducible too, right?
>
>
>
> from dmesg:
> [17217.872070] ld[16027]: segfault at 0 ip 00002ae3b445411b sp
> 00007fffc39a74e8 error 4 in libc-2.9.so[2ae3b43d0000+168000]
> [17354.753195] ld[20115]: segfault at 0 ip 00002b832843d11b sp
> 00007fff729f2fa8 error 4 in libc-2.9.so[2b83283b9000+168000]
> [19463.265457] ld[3673]: segfault at 0 ip 00002ad2f7a3a11b sp
> 00007fffd11023a8 error 4 in libc-2.9.so[2ad2f79b6000+168000]
> [19474.653491] ld[3680]: segfault at 0 ip 00002b7f10f0e11b sp
> 00007fffbac8a978 error 4 in libc-2.9.so[2b7f10e8a000+168000]
> [19507.935271] ld[3687]: segfault at 0 ip 00002af5c9eb511b sp
> 00007fff12fe00d8 error 4 in libc-2.9.so[2af5c9e31000+168000]
> [19528.740436] ld[3701]: segfault at 0 ip 00002b265616a11b sp
> 00007fff2ceb8d98 error 4 in libc-2.9.so[2b26560e6000+168000]
> [19606.865585] ld[3754]: segfault at 0 ip 00002ae3a079811b sp
> 00007fff6bc4d3c8 error 4 in libc-2.9.so[2ae3a0714000+168000]
> [263529.064795] convert[24941]: segfault at 7fffd973b6b8 ip
> 00007fffdb1e2ed9 sp 00007fffd973b660 error 7 in
> libMagickCore.so.1.0.0[7fffdb0fe000+1b5000]
> [268495.776398] convert[28595]: segfault at 7fffc7e2b608 ip
> 00007fffc9e13ed9 sp 00007fffc7e2b5b0 error 7 in
> libMagickCore.so.1.0.0[7fffc9d2f000+1b5000]
>
>
>
> Any advice?
> Thanks,
> -Thomas
>
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>
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Re: [BLUG] Fwd: possible causes of segfaults

Hiya,

Well, I'm using Ubuntu, and generally upgrades go fine without
rebooting... It's a nice server machine with ECC memory. So yeah, it
should really be at least telling me if I'm getting memory corruption,
if not fixing it outright.

Hmm, once, I had a computer that, on one version of Linux, was fine,
and on the next version (2.6.15->2.6.16 or something) would flip one
bit every 600MB of i/o. It slowly corrupted the entire filesystem and
... yuck. So I guess right now I'm suspecting Linux, or something
subtle in the hardware.

Thanks for your advice! It's good to narrow it down a bit. I'll
probably come in sometime over break (my boss will probably work the
whole week, but nobody else is here, and he can deal) and run that
memory test, as you say.

Bleh,
-Thomas

On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 4:33 PM, Steven Black <blacks@indiana.edu> wrote:
> Did you upgrade the system without rebooting it? (That should be
> reproducible, though.) Are you using a version of ImageMagick compiled
> for a different distribution of Linux? (I know a lot of RPM-based
> systems do not bundle a lot of programs.)
>
> If you downloaded an RPM that wasn't compiled specifically for your
> distribution/version, I would expect that to be the cause of the
> problem. If that's the cause of the problem, building it from source
> should clear it up.
>
> If you're using the version of ImageMagick that comes with your
> distribution and you've not recently performed an upgrade, memory
> corruption seems the most likely candidate. Does that machine have
> unparitied memory? Any type of memory other than unparitied would likely
> show an error instead of just producing bogus data. (It is why I hate
> unparitied memory.)
>
> It could also be a CPU fault.
>
> Problems with hard drives tend to show up as errors with the specific
> media. (It'll list the device producing the error.) Hardware problems
> regarding media do not normally produce segfaults, unless the
> application fails to handle the error case.
>
> My recommendation: Pick an upcoming weekend and tell them the services
> of this machine will be unavailable. Then start the memory test at
> 5:15pm (adjusted for the end of your workday) and run a memory checker
> all weekend. Then come in 15 minutes early on Monday to check for errors
> and reboot the system.
>
> Cheers,
> Steven Black
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 03:58:40PM -0500, Thomas Smith wrote:
>> Hiya,
>>
>> I just installed a new file / computation server at my work, and a few
>> days into its tenure, I've started noticing some segfaults.
>>
>> For instance, I was running a bunch of image processing jobs, and
>> ImageMagick's "convert" program segfaulted.  I ran it again on the
>> same data, and it did fine.  So I'm wondering if I have bad hardware,
>> or bad libraries, or what?
>>
>> Possible causes of segmentation faults that I know of:
>> Hardware --- could be very random and difficult to find, might need to
>> totally shut down the server and run a memory tester for days in order
>> to find.
>>
>> Filesystem corruption --- should be reproducible, right?  if "convert"
>> segfaults once, it should do it again...
>>
>> Libraries / os problems --- should be reproducible too, right?
>>
>>
>>
>> from dmesg:
>> [17217.872070] ld[16027]: segfault at 0 ip 00002ae3b445411b sp
>> 00007fffc39a74e8 error 4 in libc-2.9.so[2ae3b43d0000+168000]
>> [17354.753195] ld[20115]: segfault at 0 ip 00002b832843d11b sp
>> 00007fff729f2fa8 error 4 in libc-2.9.so[2b83283b9000+168000]
>> [19463.265457] ld[3673]: segfault at 0 ip 00002ad2f7a3a11b sp
>> 00007fffd11023a8 error 4 in libc-2.9.so[2ad2f79b6000+168000]
>> [19474.653491] ld[3680]: segfault at 0 ip 00002b7f10f0e11b sp
>> 00007fffbac8a978 error 4 in libc-2.9.so[2b7f10e8a000+168000]
>> [19507.935271] ld[3687]: segfault at 0 ip 00002af5c9eb511b sp
>> 00007fff12fe00d8 error 4 in libc-2.9.so[2af5c9e31000+168000]
>> [19528.740436] ld[3701]: segfault at 0 ip 00002b265616a11b sp
>> 00007fff2ceb8d98 error 4 in libc-2.9.so[2b26560e6000+168000]
>> [19606.865585] ld[3754]: segfault at 0 ip 00002ae3a079811b sp
>> 00007fff6bc4d3c8 error 4 in libc-2.9.so[2ae3a0714000+168000]
>> [263529.064795] convert[24941]: segfault at 7fffd973b6b8 ip
>> 00007fffdb1e2ed9 sp 00007fffd973b660 error 7 in
>> libMagickCore.so.1.0.0[7fffdb0fe000+1b5000]
>> [268495.776398] convert[28595]: segfault at 7fffc7e2b608 ip
>> 00007fffc9e13ed9 sp 00007fffc7e2b5b0 error 7 in
>> libMagickCore.so.1.0.0[7fffc9d2f000+1b5000]
>>
>>
>>
>> Any advice?
>> Thanks,
>> -Thomas
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BLUG mailing list
>> BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>

--
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Monday, December 21, 2009

Re: [BLUG] Fwd: possible causes of segfaults

Did you upgrade the system without rebooting it? (That should be
reproducible, though.) Are you using a version of ImageMagick compiled
for a different distribution of Linux? (I know a lot of RPM-based
systems do not bundle a lot of programs.)

If you downloaded an RPM that wasn't compiled specifically for your
distribution/version, I would expect that to be the cause of the
problem. If that's the cause of the problem, building it from source
should clear it up.

If you're using the version of ImageMagick that comes with your
distribution and you've not recently performed an upgrade, memory
corruption seems the most likely candidate. Does that machine have
unparitied memory? Any type of memory other than unparitied would likely
show an error instead of just producing bogus data. (It is why I hate
unparitied memory.)

It could also be a CPU fault.

Problems with hard drives tend to show up as errors with the specific
media. (It'll list the device producing the error.) Hardware problems
regarding media do not normally produce segfaults, unless the
application fails to handle the error case.

My recommendation: Pick an upcoming weekend and tell them the services
of this machine will be unavailable. Then start the memory test at
5:15pm (adjusted for the end of your workday) and run a memory checker
all weekend. Then come in 15 minutes early on Monday to check for errors
and reboot the system.

Cheers,
Steven Black

On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 03:58:40PM -0500, Thomas Smith wrote:
> Hiya,
>
> I just installed a new file / computation server at my work, and a few
> days into its tenure, I've started noticing some segfaults.
>
> For instance, I was running a bunch of image processing jobs, and
> ImageMagick's "convert" program segfaulted.  I ran it again on the
> same data, and it did fine.  So I'm wondering if I have bad hardware,
> or bad libraries, or what?
>
> Possible causes of segmentation faults that I know of:
> Hardware --- could be very random and difficult to find, might need to
> totally shut down the server and run a memory tester for days in order
> to find.
>
> Filesystem corruption --- should be reproducible, right?  if "convert"
> segfaults once, it should do it again...
>
> Libraries / os problems --- should be reproducible too, right?
>
>
>
> from dmesg:
> [17217.872070] ld[16027]: segfault at 0 ip 00002ae3b445411b sp
> 00007fffc39a74e8 error 4 in libc-2.9.so[2ae3b43d0000+168000]
> [17354.753195] ld[20115]: segfault at 0 ip 00002b832843d11b sp
> 00007fff729f2fa8 error 4 in libc-2.9.so[2b83283b9000+168000]
> [19463.265457] ld[3673]: segfault at 0 ip 00002ad2f7a3a11b sp
> 00007fffd11023a8 error 4 in libc-2.9.so[2ad2f79b6000+168000]
> [19474.653491] ld[3680]: segfault at 0 ip 00002b7f10f0e11b sp
> 00007fffbac8a978 error 4 in libc-2.9.so[2b7f10e8a000+168000]
> [19507.935271] ld[3687]: segfault at 0 ip 00002af5c9eb511b sp
> 00007fff12fe00d8 error 4 in libc-2.9.so[2af5c9e31000+168000]
> [19528.740436] ld[3701]: segfault at 0 ip 00002b265616a11b sp
> 00007fff2ceb8d98 error 4 in libc-2.9.so[2b26560e6000+168000]
> [19606.865585] ld[3754]: segfault at 0 ip 00002ae3a079811b sp
> 00007fff6bc4d3c8 error 4 in libc-2.9.so[2ae3a0714000+168000]
> [263529.064795] convert[24941]: segfault at 7fffd973b6b8 ip
> 00007fffdb1e2ed9 sp 00007fffd973b660 error 7 in
> libMagickCore.so.1.0.0[7fffdb0fe000+1b5000]
> [268495.776398] convert[28595]: segfault at 7fffc7e2b608 ip
> 00007fffc9e13ed9 sp 00007fffc7e2b5b0 error 7 in
> libMagickCore.so.1.0.0[7fffc9d2f000+1b5000]
>
>
>
> Any advice?
> Thanks,
> -Thomas
>
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

_______________________________________________
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[BLUG] Fwd: possible causes of segfaults

Hiya,

I just installed a new file / computation server at my work, and a few
days into its tenure, I've started noticing some segfaults.

For instance, I was running a bunch of image processing jobs, and
ImageMagick's "convert" program segfaulted.  I ran it again on the
same data, and it did fine.  So I'm wondering if I have bad hardware,
or bad libraries, or what?

Possible causes of segmentation faults that I know of:
Hardware --- could be very random and difficult to find, might need to
totally shut down the server and run a memory tester for days in order
to find.

Filesystem corruption --- should be reproducible, right?  if "convert"
segfaults once, it should do it again...

Libraries / os problems --- should be reproducible too, right?

from dmesg:
[17217.872070] ld[16027]: segfault at 0 ip 00002ae3b445411b sp
00007fffc39a74e8 error 4 in libc-2.9.so[2ae3b43d0000+168000]
[17354.753195] ld[20115]: segfault at 0 ip 00002b832843d11b sp
00007fff729f2fa8 error 4 in libc-2.9.so[2b83283b9000+168000]
[19463.265457] ld[3673]: segfault at 0 ip 00002ad2f7a3a11b sp
00007fffd11023a8 error 4 in libc-2.9.so[2ad2f79b6000+168000]
[19474.653491] ld[3680]: segfault at 0 ip 00002b7f10f0e11b sp
00007fffbac8a978 error 4 in libc-2.9.so[2b7f10e8a000+168000]
[19507.935271] ld[3687]: segfault at 0 ip 00002af5c9eb511b sp
00007fff12fe00d8 error 4 in libc-2.9.so[2af5c9e31000+168000]
[19528.740436] ld[3701]: segfault at 0 ip 00002b265616a11b sp
00007fff2ceb8d98 error 4 in libc-2.9.so[2b26560e6000+168000]
[19606.865585] ld[3754]: segfault at 0 ip 00002ae3a079811b sp
00007fff6bc4d3c8 error 4 in libc-2.9.so[2ae3a0714000+168000]
[263529.064795] convert[24941]: segfault at 7fffd973b6b8 ip
00007fffdb1e2ed9 sp 00007fffd973b660 error 7 in
libMagickCore.so.1.0.0[7fffdb0fe000+1b5000]
[268495.776398] convert[28595]: segfault at 7fffc7e2b608 ip
00007fffc9e13ed9 sp 00007fffc7e2b5b0 error 7 in
libMagickCore.so.1.0.0[7fffc9d2f000+1b5000]

Any advice?
Thanks,
-Thomas

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Re: [BLUG] power off CD?

On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 08:19:44AM -0500, David Ernst wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 11:27:21PM -0500, Steven Black wrote:
> >On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 01:11:29AM -0500, David Ernst wrote:
> >> So, we put the CD into the CD drive of my Ubuntu (Jaunty)
> >> machine... it spins up, and ... my computer turns off. power off. As
> >> if our power had gone out, but it hadn't.
> >
> >You should check the kernel logs. (/var/log/dmesg.*)
>
> I thought the dmesg logs wrote only boot-up info..? I took a look and
> didn't see anything, any clues on what you think I should be looking
> for?

After boot up the kernel writes logs to a pipe and either syslog-ng
or klogd will read from the pipe and write to a file. It should cover
issues that crop up after boot.

This log gets rotated at boot, so an 'ls -al dmesg*' will show you the
dates and times of the last write to each log. That can be used to find
the correct file, then look at the last line or so.

I don't know about your distribution, but my distro time-stamps each line
with time-since-boot information (in seconds?). This allows you to look
for the jump from boot time to post-boot messages.

However, if it was the CMOS/BIOS causing the shutdown (as I have seen
before) it is unlikely there will be any meaningful entries in the log.

> >Powering off is unusual. Now, kernel halting due to some hardware issue,
> >that's a lot more common.
>
> Agreed. But would the computer really turn off its power on a kernel
> panic?

Not normally, no.

I believe there is logic in place to prevent kernel dead-locks which
may reboot the system -- I thought it performed a reboot and didn't
shut it down, though.

Such an incident would be flagged in the kernel log.

> >I've seen low-level errors power off machines before. If you have logs
> >available in your CMOS/BIOS settings that may shine some light on it.
>
> next time I reboot, I'll try to take a look. :) I don't remember
> ever seeing such a thing, though.

These logs are fairly common for server hardware, but rare for
desktop/laptop hardware. Look for anything with "Log" in the name. Just
a forewarning, sometimes these are not directly human-readiable and just
contain time-stamps and hex numbers.

Cheers,
Steven Black

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Re: [BLUG] power off CD?

On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 11:27:21PM -0500, Steven Black wrote:
>On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 01:11:29AM -0500, David Ernst wrote:
>> So, we put the CD into the CD drive of my Ubuntu (Jaunty)
>> machine... it spins up, and ... my computer turns off. power off. As
>> if our power had gone out, but it hadn't.
>
>You should check the kernel logs. (/var/log/dmesg.*)

I thought the dmesg logs wrote only boot-up info..? I took a look and
didn't see anything, any clues on what you think I should be looking
for?

>Powering off is unusual. Now, kernel halting due to some hardware issue,
>that's a lot more common.

Agreed. But would the computer really turn off its power on a kernel
panic?

>I've seen low-level errors power off machines before. If you have logs
>available in your CMOS/BIOS settings that may shine some light on it.

next time I reboot, I'll try to take a look. :) I don't remember
ever seeing such a thing, though.

David
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Sunday, December 20, 2009

Re: [BLUG] power off CD?

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 01:11:29AM -0500, David Ernst wrote:
> So, we put the CD into the CD drive of my Ubuntu (Jaunty)
> machine... it spins up, and ... my computer turns off. power off. As
> if our power had gone out, but it hadn't.

You should check the kernel logs. (/var/log/dmesg.*)

Powering off is unusual. Now, kernel halting due to some hardware issue,
that's a lot more common.

I've seen low-level errors power off machines before. If you have logs
available in your CMOS/BIOS settings that may shine some light on it.

Cheers,
Steven Black

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Re: [BLUG] power off CD?

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:50:46AM -0600, Beartooth wrote:
>On Fri, 18 Dec 2009, David Ernst wrote:
>
>> So, my wife Priscilla makes a copy of a data CD. Some friends
>> are in the psychology dept at IU, and she volunteered for an
>> experiment and ended up with some kind of imaging info of her
>> brain. I don't think that's important to the story, but maybe.
>> Anyway, she drags a couple of extra files onto the disk in
>> Windows (Vista), and it's ready to give to her friend. She
>> said to me "can you put this in you computer and make sure that
>> it works?" Sure. [....]
>
> Would the psych department be doing scans using medical
>imaging?

Well, I'm a total outsider here, so I can't speak to exactly what they
are doing. But, they do these experiments where they put you in an
MRI machine (or something) and then ask you to do stuff (listen to
music, answer some questions, etc) and watch what happens in your
brain when you're thinking about it. In addition to the $50 or
whatever, they also give you a picture of your brain. :)

> I have CDs/DVDs of some scans made at local hospitals --
>MRIs and I disremember what else -- which I haven't managed to
>display with Fedora. They don't harm any machine I've tried them
>on, just fail to display imagery.

Yeah, I really don't think it's the images themselves... But I don't
know that.

David
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Friday, December 18, 2009

Re: [BLUG] power off CD?

On Fri, 18 Dec 2009, David Ernst wrote:

> So, my wife Priscilla makes a copy of a data CD. Some friends
> are in the psychology dept at IU, and she volunteered for an
> experiment and ended up with some kind of imaging info of her
> brain. I don't think that's important to the story, but maybe.
> Anyway, she drags a couple of extra files onto the disk in
> Windows (Vista), and it's ready to give to her friend. She
> said to me "can you put this in you computer and make sure that
> it works?" Sure. [....]

Would the psych department be doing scans using medical
imaging?

I have CDs/DVDs of some scans made at local hospitals --
MRIs and I disremember what else -- which I haven't managed to
display with Fedora. They don't harm any machine I've tried them
on, just fail to display imagery.

Anyway, I asked on Novalug some months back. Before the
discussion got way beyond any savvy I'll ever have, I discovered
that there are now some (apparently very fancy) formats
specifically for medical imagery. I did not then hear of an app
that would "just work" for a home linux user; dunno what chance
any has appeared since. But the discussions might tell youss
guyss a lot more than they did me.

--
Beartooth Staffwright, Erstwhile Historian of Tongues
Sclerotic Squirreler, Double Retiree, Linux Evangelist
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Re: [BLUG] power off CD?

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 10:58:39AM -0500, Kirk Gleason wrote:
>Out of curiosity, was the CD finalized? or is it still open for
>writing files in Vista?

I'm not sure, but I'm guessing that it wasn't finalized. She said
that she did it a different way than usual, and it didn't "burn" the
way it usually does. That made me nervous, but there is, indeed, data
on it.

>What happens if you insert it into a Windows
>machine that is not the one on which the CD was created?

Everything works fine.

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:06:49AM -0500, Simón Ruiz wrote:
|Have you tried this CD on a different Linux machine, by any chance, to
|see if that behavior is consistent even when not on that one
|particular machine?

Nope. Sadly, there's only one easily accessible linux machine
around. I guess my retired laptop is still over there, I could try
that...

David
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Re: [BLUG] power off CD?

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 1:11 AM, David Ernst <david.ernst@davidernst.net> wrote:
> I turn the computer back on, remove the CD, and the computer boots
> normally.  With no applications running besides the core and the GUI,
> I insert the CD again.  It spins up, and the computer powers down
> again.
>
> I'm convinced, so I won't try it again.  She takes the CD back
> to her computer, and that computer reads it just fine.
>
> David

Have you tried this CD on a different Linux machine, by any chance, to
see if that behavior is consistent even when not on that one
particular machine?

Simón

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Re: [BLUG] power off CD?

Out of curiosity, was the CD finalized? or is it still open for
writing files in Vista? What happens if you insert it into a Windows
machine that is not the one on which the CD was created?

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 9:35 AM, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 02:18:42PM GMT, David Ernst [david.ernst@davidernst.net] said the following:
>> curious.  Thanks for your thoughts, Mark!
>>
>
>  Don't thank my thoughts, thank your wife's. Har har.
>
> --
> Mark Krenz
> Bloomington Linux Users Group
> http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
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>

--
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Re: [BLUG] power off CD?

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 02:18:42PM GMT, David Ernst [david.ernst@davidernst.net] said the following:
> curious. Thanks for your thoughts, Mark!
>

Don't thank my thoughts, thank your wife's. Har har.

--
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Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
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Re: [BLUG] power off CD?

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 12:28:31PM +0000, Mark Krenz wrote:
> You say "powers down", you mean the computers power turns off right,
>not Ubuntu goes through the whole shutdown sequence?

Correct. Like I said, it's as if the utility power went out (with no
UPS, internal battery, etc).

> That's an interesting problem, could it be that you've hit the maximum
>power your power supply can handle? Maybe the CD was unreadable by
>Linux and it spun the drive faster drawing more power? What type of
>files are in the CD and how big are they?

The power draw question is an interesting one, but it seems unlikely.
I could easily test that with another CD. But, of course, although I
don't use the drive that often, I do use it SOMETIMES and nothing like
this has ever happened before. But, yeah, the power supply is less
than a year old, and I think it's just spinning two hard drives... I
don't have much hardware in this machine.

The files are probably large jpegs but I don't actually know that.
there were a couple of plain text files and an mp3 or two. There is
an autorun, I was wondering if Ubuntu was trying to get fancy and do
something with the autorun and that's what caused the problem.

> Searching for inserting cd shuts off computer on google yeilds a
>surprising number of results, but they are all windows problems, which
>isn't surprising.

Wow, that is surprising. I foolishly including "linux" in my search
when I did this.

*shrug* Like I said, no solution is necessary, but I found it
curious. Thanks for your thoughts, Mark!

David


>On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 06:11:29AM GMT, David Ernst [david.ernst@davidernst.net] said the following:
>> So, my wife Priscilla makes a copy of a data CD. Some friends are in
>> the psychology dept at IU, and she volunteered for an experiment and
>> ended up with some kind of imaging info of her brain. I don't think
>> that's important to the story, but maybe. Anyway, she drags a couple
>> of extra files onto the disk in Windows (Vista), and it's ready to
>> give to her friend. She said to me "can you put this in you computer
>> and make sure that it works?" Sure.
>>
>> So, we put the CD into the CD drive of my Ubuntu (Jaunty)
>> machine... it spins up, and ... my computer turns off. power off. As
>> if our power had gone out, but it hadn't.
>>
>> I turned the computer back on, it started booting, got about half way
>> through the progress meter (before the login prompt) and... same
>> thing. Power off.
>>
>> I turn the computer back on, remove the CD, and the computer boots
>> normally. With no applications running besides the core and the GUI,
>> I insert the CD again. It spins up, and the computer powers down
>> again.
>>
>> I'm convinced, so I won't try it again. She takes the CD back
>> to her computer, and that computer reads it just fine.
>>
>> We really don't need to solve this problem, but I'm curious if anyone
>> has any thoughts on what's going on here. I wouldn't know how to make
>> such a CD if I wanted that functionality.... Strange that it might
>> somehow happen inadvertantly...
>>
>> David
>> _______________________________________________
>> BLUG mailing list
>> BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>>
>
>--
>Mark Krenz
>Bloomington Linux Users Group
>http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
>_______________________________________________
>BLUG mailing list
>BLUG@linuxfan.com
>http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

[BLUG] directories named -

I posted the hint to @climagic just now about how you can use the
command:

cd -

This will take you to the previous directory you were in. I find this
very useful as a short cut to go back and forth. I thought then what
happens if you name a directory -. It turns out, you will have a lot of
trouble on the command line changing into such a named directory.

I talked to people on the #bash channel on freenode and they were also
surprised. Normally, you could use -- to a command in order to tell it
that "hey, the options are over with, the rest of the arguments are not
options", but

So here are a list of ways that don't work for getting into the -
directory. Unless of course your previous directory was the - directory:

cd -
cd -/
cd '-'
cd "-"
cd '\-'
cd "\-"
cd \-
cd \-/
cd \\-/ (Tries to go to a directory called \- (go figure)
cd -- -
cd -- -/

The following will work:

cd /full/path/to/-
cd ./-
cd ./-/
cd ~/to/- (if its a subdir of your homedir)


Of course, I was able to delete the empty - dir by simply running

rmdir -


Lesson learned, don't name directories -


--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Re: [BLUG] power off CD?

You say "powers down", you mean the computers power turns off right,
not Ubuntu goes through the whole shutdown sequence?

That's an interesting problem, could it be that you've hit the maximum
power your power supply can handle? Maybe the CD was unreadable by
Linux and it spun the drive faster drawing more power? What type of
files are in the CD and how big are they?

Searching for inserting cd shuts off computer on google yeilds a
surprising number of results, but they are all windows problems, which
isn't surprising.

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 06:11:29AM GMT, David Ernst [david.ernst@davidernst.net] said the following:
> So, my wife Priscilla makes a copy of a data CD. Some friends are in
> the psychology dept at IU, and she volunteered for an experiment and
> ended up with some kind of imaging info of her brain. I don't think
> that's important to the story, but maybe. Anyway, she drags a couple
> of extra files onto the disk in Windows (Vista), and it's ready to
> give to her friend. She said to me "can you put this in you computer
> and make sure that it works?" Sure.
>
> So, we put the CD into the CD drive of my Ubuntu (Jaunty)
> machine... it spins up, and ... my computer turns off. power off. As
> if our power had gone out, but it hadn't.
>
> I turned the computer back on, it started booting, got about half way
> through the progress meter (before the login prompt) and... same
> thing. Power off.
>
> I turn the computer back on, remove the CD, and the computer boots
> normally. With no applications running besides the core and the GUI,
> I insert the CD again. It spins up, and the computer powers down
> again.
>
> I'm convinced, so I won't try it again. She takes the CD back
> to her computer, and that computer reads it just fine.
>
> We really don't need to solve this problem, but I'm curious if anyone
> has any thoughts on what's going on here. I wouldn't know how to make
> such a CD if I wanted that functionality.... Strange that it might
> somehow happen inadvertantly...
>
> David
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Thursday, December 17, 2009

[BLUG] power off CD?

So, my wife Priscilla makes a copy of a data CD. Some friends are in
the psychology dept at IU, and she volunteered for an experiment and
ended up with some kind of imaging info of her brain. I don't think
that's important to the story, but maybe. Anyway, she drags a couple
of extra files onto the disk in Windows (Vista), and it's ready to
give to her friend. She said to me "can you put this in you computer
and make sure that it works?" Sure.

So, we put the CD into the CD drive of my Ubuntu (Jaunty)
machine... it spins up, and ... my computer turns off. power off. As
if our power had gone out, but it hadn't.

I turned the computer back on, it started booting, got about half way
through the progress meter (before the login prompt) and... same
thing. Power off.

I turn the computer back on, remove the CD, and the computer boots
normally. With no applications running besides the core and the GUI,
I insert the CD again. It spins up, and the computer powers down
again.

I'm convinced, so I won't try it again. She takes the CD back
to her computer, and that computer reads it just fine.

We really don't need to solve this problem, but I'm curious if anyone
has any thoughts on what's going on here. I wouldn't know how to make
such a CD if I wanted that functionality.... Strange that it might
somehow happen inadvertantly...

David
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Tuesday, December 15, 2009

Re: [BLUG] Command line magic on Twitter

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 08:00:30PM GMT, Robert Freeman-Day [presgas@gmail.com] said the following:
>
> Commandlinefu also has some pretty nifty items in its repository.
>
> http://www.commandlinefu.com/commands/browse
>

Thanks, that's a neat one too. Didn't know about it.

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Re: [BLUG] Command line magic on Twitter

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009, Mark Krenz wrote:

> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 19:44:45 +0000
> From: Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org>
> Reply-To: Bloomington LINUX Users Group <blug@cs.indiana.edu>
> To: blug@cs.indiana.edu
> Subject: [BLUG] Command line magic on Twitter
>
>
> I know some of you probably don't use Twitter or scoff at it, but maybe
> its just because you haven't found anything interesting there yet. This
> may change your mind.
>
> I created a new account on Twitter called climagic, which you can
> follow here:
>
> http://twitter.com/climagic
>
> It stands for Command Line (Interface) Magic.
>
> Every day I will be posting a few command line demonstrations of
> different things you can do in bash as well as some helpful tips. I've
> categorized the demos out into easy, medium and advanced so that there
> is something for all users and will try to include various purposes.
> Hopefully you'll find new things you can do and better ways of doing old
> things.
>
> I also welcome suggestions of course.
>
> --
> Mark Krenz
> Bloomington Linux Users Group
> http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/

Commandlinefu also has some pretty nifty items in its repository.

http://www.commandlinefu.com/commands/browse

- ---Robert Freeman-Day
- ---------------
I would really like you to be on my side,
but the side you show me isn't what I had in mind.

- -Judybats
GPG Public Key:
http:keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xBA9DF9ED3E4C7D36

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAksn6t4ACgkQup357T5MfTbO1ACfQEn62ffubldacXSh2VL7ANT2
AB4Ani2M5gp6ZCMrfHnc1rOkMBkYKFV9
=7q7S
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

[BLUG] Command line magic on Twitter

I know some of you probably don't use Twitter or scoff at it, but maybe
its just because you haven't found anything interesting there yet. This
may change your mind.

I created a new account on Twitter called climagic, which you can
follow here:

http://twitter.com/climagic

It stands for Command Line (Interface) Magic.

Every day I will be posting a few command line demonstrations of
different things you can do in bash as well as some helpful tips. I've
categorized the demos out into easy, medium and advanced so that there
is something for all users and will try to include various purposes.
Hopefully you'll find new things you can do and better ways of doing old
things.

I also welcome suggestions of course.

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Saturday, December 12, 2009

[BLUG] Strange sort behavior fixed with LANG

I was sorting an /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow file on the same machine
for the purpose of using the join command for an ldap import. I was
puzzled when I ran into little inconsistencies in my sorted output, like
this:

excerpt of sorted /etc/passwd:

joe:x:821:821::/home/joe:/bin/bash
joebob:x:1192:1192::/home/joebob:/bin/bash

excerpt of sorted /etc/shadow:

joebob:$1$uyt4hg46$Gf1EAPxzZ/Tm7X8BEgyBe0:12687:0:99999:7:::
joe:$1$uyt4hg46$Gf1EAPxzZ/Tm7X8BEgyBe0:12687:0:99999:7:::


What? Why would it put joe before joebob in one file and joebob before
joe in the other. All I had run to generate the output was this:

sort /etc/passwd > passwd-sorted
sort /etc/shadow > shadow-sorted

It turns out that when it comes to things like colons or
non-alphanumeric characters, sort will do strange things. So what you
have to do to get the right output is set the LANG=C variable in your
command line like this:

LANG=C sort filename

I can't believe I haven't run into this before. I hate to think how
many lists I may have constructed that had little errors in it now.

(And no that isn't a real password I used above for this e-mail.)

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Monday, November 30, 2009

Re: [BLUG] uptime no reset at 1024

I stand corrected.

It might be interesting to see how 'uptime(1)' gets the information.

A man of times(2) shows the return value (a clock_t) was the time when
the system was booted for 2.4 series kernels, but that's no longer the
case for 2.6 kernels.

Cheers,
Steven Black

On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 05:12:03PM +0000, Mark Krenz wrote:
>
> Your Occam's Razor smack down has been canceled out by evidence.
>
> Linux kernels USED TO wrap around their uptime at 497 days. This was
> due to how the uptime was stored in the kernel. As a measument of
> jiffies. Jiffies used to be set to 100 per second, but can now be
> adjusted to even 1000 per second. This is what that 100Hz, 250Hz, 1000Hz
> setting is in the kernel config. Thus the time stored in the uptime
> used to be limited to 2^32 seconds / 100jiffies / 86400 sec/day = 497days
>
> I noticed once that the shell server at Kiva, which is still running
> on the 2.2 kernel, wrapped around its uptime at 497 days like this.
>
>
> Anyways, I had heard offhand comments that the number of days might
> wrap around at 1024 days, so I was curious if something might happen at
> 1024 days. It wasn't really based on the above, it was just based on
> heresay and anecdotal evidence.
>
> After all, I found that the load average itself wraps around at
> 1024.0 on 2.4 kernels at least. And yes, I did see a machine reach a 1
> minute load average of over 15000. I had to determine this by using some
> logs I had that showed that it was wrapping around. The machine in
> question wasn't really using that much CPU, it was load that was based
> on deadlocking samba processes that were trying to run 'df' on a machine
> with hung NFS mounts.
>
> Mark
>
> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 04:43:58PM GMT, Steven Black [blacks@indiana.edu] said the following:
> > Let's think realisticly. (Or, perhaps, provide an Occam's Razor smack
> > down.)
> >
> > The uptime is a time, so it is likely stored in a time_t. This means it
> > would normally be subject to the same year 2038 Unix Epoch wrap provided
> > the system used 32-bit time_t values.
> >
> > However, it is stored as a relative time, so the that the beginning of
> > this particular epoch was when the machine was started up. This means it
> > wouldn't be expected to wrap until (2038 - 1970 =) 68 years from when
> > you started it up. And again, this is only if it is a 32-bit machine
> > with a 32-bit time_t.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Steven Black
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 01:49:10PM +0000, Mark Krenz wrote:
> > >
> > > # w
> > > 08:48:11 up 1028 days, 0 min, 6 users, load average: 0.03, 0.19, 0.17
> > >
> > > I was wondering if the days would wrap around at 1024 days. I guess
> > > they don't.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mark Krenz
> > > Bloomington Linux Users Group
> > > http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > BLUG mailing list
> > BLUG@linuxfan.com
> > http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
> >
>
> --
> Mark Krenz
> Bloomington Linux Users Group
> http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

--
Cheers,
Steven Black

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Re: [BLUG] uptime no reset at 1024

Your Occam's Razor smack down has been canceled out by evidence.

Linux kernels USED TO wrap around their uptime at 497 days. This was
due to how the uptime was stored in the kernel. As a measument of
jiffies. Jiffies used to be set to 100 per second, but can now be
adjusted to even 1000 per second. This is what that 100Hz, 250Hz, 1000Hz
setting is in the kernel config. Thus the time stored in the uptime
used to be limited to 2^32 seconds / 100jiffies / 86400 sec/day = 497days

I noticed once that the shell server at Kiva, which is still running
on the 2.2 kernel, wrapped around its uptime at 497 days like this.


Anyways, I had heard offhand comments that the number of days might
wrap around at 1024 days, so I was curious if something might happen at
1024 days. It wasn't really based on the above, it was just based on
heresay and anecdotal evidence.

After all, I found that the load average itself wraps around at
1024.0 on 2.4 kernels at least. And yes, I did see a machine reach a 1
minute load average of over 15000. I had to determine this by using some
logs I had that showed that it was wrapping around. The machine in
question wasn't really using that much CPU, it was load that was based
on deadlocking samba processes that were trying to run 'df' on a machine
with hung NFS mounts.

Mark

On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 04:43:58PM GMT, Steven Black [blacks@indiana.edu] said the following:
> Let's think realisticly. (Or, perhaps, provide an Occam's Razor smack
> down.)
>
> The uptime is a time, so it is likely stored in a time_t. This means it
> would normally be subject to the same year 2038 Unix Epoch wrap provided
> the system used 32-bit time_t values.
>
> However, it is stored as a relative time, so the that the beginning of
> this particular epoch was when the machine was started up. This means it
> wouldn't be expected to wrap until (2038 - 1970 =) 68 years from when
> you started it up. And again, this is only if it is a 32-bit machine
> with a 32-bit time_t.
>
> Cheers,
> Steven Black
>
> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 01:49:10PM +0000, Mark Krenz wrote:
> >
> > # w
> > 08:48:11 up 1028 days, 0 min, 6 users, load average: 0.03, 0.19, 0.17
> >
> > I was wondering if the days would wrap around at 1024 days. I guess
> > they don't.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Mark Krenz
> > Bloomington Linux Users Group
> > http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Re: [BLUG] uptime no reset at 1024

Let's think realisticly. (Or, perhaps, provide an Occam's Razor smack
down.)

The uptime is a time, so it is likely stored in a time_t. This means it
would normally be subject to the same year 2038 Unix Epoch wrap provided
the system used 32-bit time_t values.

However, it is stored as a relative time, so the that the beginning of
this particular epoch was when the machine was started up. This means it
wouldn't be expected to wrap until (2038 - 1970 =) 68 years from when
you started it up. And again, this is only if it is a 32-bit machine
with a 32-bit time_t.

Cheers,
Steven Black

On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 01:49:10PM +0000, Mark Krenz wrote:
>
> # w
> 08:48:11 up 1028 days, 0 min, 6 users, load average: 0.03, 0.19, 0.17
>
> I was wondering if the days would wrap around at 1024 days. I guess
> they don't.
>
>
> --
> Mark Krenz
> Bloomington Linux Users Group
> http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

[BLUG] uptime no reset at 1024

# w
08:48:11 up 1028 days, 0 min, 6 users, load average: 0.03, 0.19, 0.17

I was wondering if the days would wrap around at 1024 days. I guess
they don't.


--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Saturday, November 28, 2009

[BLUG] [rescue] FS: NeXT Cube

I'm selling a NeXT Cube I got in a palette of stuff. I've already got a
turbo color slab so I really don't need a cube :) I'm located in
Bloomington, IN and I'm not going to ship this!

NeXT Cube N1000A
P/N: 2115
S/N: ABA0003988

* 68040 @ 25MHz
* 64M RAM
* Floppy
* Broken 5.25 FH HD. Spins up then down. I'll supply a 2G HH Drive
* Non-ADB Keyboard
* Non-ADB Mouse -- damaged. It looks like someone let it sit in glue or
a solvent. The ball still rolls, but I can't open it to check to see if
the rollers work.
* Monochrome monitor. Readable, but like all monitors of that vintage
its a bit faded.

I'm asking $150

Brian
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

[BLUG] FS: NeXT Cube

I'm selling a NeXT Cube I got in a palette of stuff. I've already got a
turbo color slab so I really don't need a cube :) I'm located in
Bloomington, IN and I'm not going to ship this!

NeXT Cube N1000A
P/N: 2115
S/N: ABA0003988

* 68040 @ 25MHz
* 64M RAM
* Floppy
* Broken 5.25 FH HD. Spins up then down. I'll supply a 2G HH Drive
* Non-ADB Keyboard
* Non-ADB Mouse -- damaged. It looks like someone let it sit in glue or
a solvent. The ball still rolls, but I can't open it to check to see if
the rollers work.
* Monochrome monitor. Readable, but like all monitors of that vintage
its a bit faded.

I'm asking $150

Brian


_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Friday, November 27, 2009

[BLUG] [OT] 36" Sony SD TV for free

Ok, sorry for the spam, but its not really spam since I'll give away
the TV to anyone on this list. Its a BLUG list special deal because you
are all so great.

I bought an HDTV and now I have my old standard def TV that I need to
get rid of. It still works great, its just 480 resolution.

The specific model is Sony KV-36FS10 36" Wega Trinitron TV. This is
one of the nice Sony TVs with a flat screen. Its not a flat panel TV,
but it does have a flat screen. I bought it in 1999 for $1300 and its
been a great TV. It still works and can be used for anything that has
RCA, S-video or Component output, which is pretty much everything.

I'd keep it, but I just don't have room for it. I tried to sell it on
craigslist for $100 and even $25. But I guess that's too much. :-/

So anyone on the BLUG list is welcome to have it for free, provided
that you come over and pick it up yourself and with someone else to help
you.

If you are interested, please write me directly.

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Thursday, November 26, 2009

[BLUG] [OT] Need 2-3 IDE hard drives

If anybody has any old IDE 3.5 hard drives (20G+) laying around, I could
use a couple for some charity jobs I'm doing over the weekend. Could
pick up this evening or any other time that's convenient.

--
Mark Warner
MEPIS Linux
Registered Linux User #415318

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Monday, November 23, 2009

[BLUG] Linux sysadmin positions

The company I work for during the day is hiring a couple linux system
administrators. If you are interested, please e-mail me and I will send
you details. Sorry, I can't send the details to the list.

Remember, the list default is to auto-reply to the list, so you'll have
to address the e-mail to me specifically. ;-)

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Friday, November 20, 2009

Re: [BLUG] ZFS: the future of computing?

Some of the features you're talking about are clearly aspects of
OpenSolaris. For instance, the automounting stuff? That's not a
filesystem-layer activity. That's an OS layer activity that interacts
with various filesystems. (For instance, the ext2 family of filesystems
(including ext3 and ext4) have the capacity to store their mount
point in the metadata, and as such it would be possible to write an
automounter that mounts them without an fstab file.)

ZFS does have a lot of features, it is true.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZFS

I suspect that a number of the "attention to fine detail" aspects of it
may well be integrated deeply within the OS itself -- and not inherant
aspects of ZFS.

The whole "incompatible with the GPL as used in the Linux kernel" thing
makes it less interesting to me.

It's like saying BeOS has really great (that is low) audio latency.
It does me no good, as I'm not going to actually use BeOS. I may as
well wait for a free software guy to adapt features in to a system I
can actually use. (Unless, say, they can't do that because they're all
patented...)

I have more interest in the Hurd than I do in OpenSolaris. Jumping
between Linux distributions is minor work compared to going between
entirely different operating systems. (If I get the Debian distribution
of the Hurd the only big thing different would be the kernel.)

Side note: Even though the Hurd isn't done yet, the upcoming release of
Debian (codename: Squeeze) will include kFreeBSD as a core supported
architecture. (For the folks unaware, it'll be Debian but with the
FreeBSD kernel instead of the Linux kernel.)

Solaris, in particular, is like an odd cousin with funny coloured hair
and a weird accent when compared to Linux. They grew up in totally
different places, and different underlying decisions were made so long
ago that neither family even remembers that it was once a decision.

Cheers,
Steven Black

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 09:06:57PM -0500, Joe Auty wrote:
> I've been testing and evaluating ZFS over the last several days, and
> I've been thoroughly impressed. ZFS is one of those products where there
> is so much attention to little details that it is literally a joy to
> use. This is Sun's masterpiece!
>
> I'm only testing ZFS in an OpenSolaris VM for now so I can't report
> really back on performance and resource consumption, but from what I can
> gather there are a lot of people who consider ZFS to be highly stable,
> some companies and universities using it on production servers, and as
> you know it is the default file system in OpenSolaris. That being said,
> here is why I've been so impressed with it...
>
> ZFS seems to sort of combine LVM and hardware RAID into a single
> product. It even includes a mini-NFS and iSCSI client for very easy file
> system sharing, it will automount all of your file sytems at boot so
> that you don't have to much around with the Solaris equivalent to fstab,
> and the interface is very thoughtful and easy-to-use with so many little
> thoughtful features and little touches that make life easy. In fact, it
> is so straight forward that it would be very easy to wrap a
> configuration GUI around, I think, and hence the subject of this message...
>
> One of the biggest problems with consumer PCs are the fact that the
> machine is dependent on a single disk which are prone to going bad.
> Given the availability of high capacity 2.5" SATA disks and Flash
> increasing in capacity and reducing in size constantly, isn't it only a
> matter of time before it makes sense to ship computers (even laptops)
> with multiple disks? It is so incredibly easy to setup a mirror of your
> filesystem in ZFS, and with a hot spare in your storage pool you can
> automatically set it up to failover and notify you. Perhaps someday
> storage in a PC will be as simple as it is with a digital camera or
> something? I don't see how this sort of thing would be that far off...
>
> The other incredibly nice feature of ZFS that is a huge net gain for
> almost all of us is its snapshot ability. Snapshots are block level,
> meaning that whenever a file is changed you don't need to keep a
> complete copy of that file, a mess of hard links and all of that sort of
> stuff you'd find in a solution such as Apple's Time Machine or many of
> the backup snapshot solutions we concoct with shell scripts. Taking
> snapshots is *incredibly fast*, incredibly easy to manage, and you can
> browse these snapshots without having to create new inodes and hard
> links - these are, as I understand it, simply very low level references
> to files, but not files themselves. Still, you can copy individual files
> from snapshots as you would copy any file, or restore an entire file
> system from a snapshot. This is so easy to do and takes up so little
> disk space that not only is this a great way to do backups, but it is
> also a great way to create yourself an "oh shit" safety net should you
> want to back out of an update that has gone bad, etc.
>
> I could go on about the many features and nice aspects to using ZFS,
> features like self healing, zpool iostat, etc. It's pretty cool stuff,
> but I'll leave my gushing for another time. Like I said, I'm just
> speaking to the features here...
>
> Still, I wanted to see what you guys thought about the future of modern
> file systems such as ZFS? I realize that it will be a long time before
> BTRFS is ready, perhaps even longer for this sort of thing to make its
> way to OS X and/or Windows, but now that the bar as been set I'm sure it
> is only a matter of time before the copycats emerge. However things end
> up, who owns what, licenses, product names, etc. This seems like a very
> big deal to me. It is definitely changing the way I think of my data,
> and I'm surprised how easy it is to setup a storage appliance like the
> one I'm testing.
>
> OpenSolaris is actually pretty nice. There are a few proprietary Sun
> things included, but a lot of it seems pretty familiar to me - bash,
> Gnome, etc. I would say that if you are looking for a storage solution
> that OpenSolaris shouldn't really be a deterrent. FreeBSD 8 is in RC3,
> and it will include full ZFS support (previous versions include partial
> support), so this is another option.
>
> Any other ZFS users/enthusiasts here?
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Joe Auty
> NetMusician: web publishing software for musicians
> http://www.netmusician.org
> joe@netmusician.org
> _______________________________________________
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> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

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