Saturday, May 8, 2010

Re: [BLUG] I don't think Linux will ever be ready for the Desktop

The place you downloaded the Cinepaint RPM from should either also provide the dependancies or provide clues as to where to go.

If you have no luck and can't find the source, the source should be available in Debian/Ubuntu/SimplyMEPIS/etc "pool" directories as tarballls (either tar.bz2 or tar.gz). Debian-style source packaging uses the canonical source archive and a separate set of patches -- all of it save a plain-text control file are standard GNU file formats and so can be subverted for other distributions and purposes. With any luck the source also references the canonical home for the library.

This isn't me pushing a distro, this is me saying I *know* that's a last-ditch location to find the source.

Cheers,
Steven Black

On May 8, 2010 3:43 PM, "Walker W. Townsend" <tzaddi@joink.com> wrote:


>
> In case you aren't aware of it, there is an 8-bpp version of GIMP
> called FilmGimp that is no...

I downloaded the RPM and was able to find and install all the
dependencies save one, "liboyranos.so.0.1.10". Google only listed
earlier versions. Any idea where to procure this one.

Thanks,
Walker

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Re: [BLUG] I don't think Linux will ever be ready for the Desktop

One thing you have to remember about FreeSoftware is it doesn't speak about price it speaks of the four freedoms. People can choose to sell freesoftware and it still be freesoftware as defined by Richard stallman

Sent from my iPhone

On May 8, 2010, at 12:48 AM, Joe Auty <joe@netmusician.org> wrote:

Simón Ruiz wrote:
Of course, my goal was to be free of proprietary software, not just to
have a free Photoshop clone.    

Can I ask why you want to be free of proprietary software? I know you're not the only one who feels this way...

Does it relate to moral opinions about selling software? Is it wanting to save money? I can't say I understand this sentiment completely. I can understand open protocols and formats, but everything else is a little unclear to me...

Feel free to speak for just yourself if you aren't inclined to speak on behalf of everybody else :)



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Joe Auty, NetMusician
<nmtwitter.png>NetMusician helps musicians, bands and artists create beautiful, professional, custom designed, career-essential websites that are easy to maintain and to integrate with popular social networks.
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joe@netmusician.org

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Re: [BLUG] I don't think Linux will ever be ready for the Desktop

>
> In case you aren't aware of it, there is an 8-bpp version of GIMP
> called FilmGimp that is now called Cinepaint. It was made by Hollywood
> programmers who needed to use it in feature films like Little Nikki,
> Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings even.
>
> http://www.cinepaint.org/
>
>
>
I downloaded the RPM and was able to find and install all the
dependencies save one, "liboyranos.so.0.1.10". Google only listed
earlier versions. Any idea where to procure this one.

Thanks,
Walker
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[BLUG] Eiseley (was I don't think Linux ....)

On Sat, 8 May 2010, Mark Krenz wrote:

>
> There is an old story I once heard, perhaps you have too.
>
> A man walks along the beach. The ocean tide has washed thousands of
> starfish up on the beach where they will die in the hot sun. Another
> man is combing the beach and picking up starfish one by one and thowing
> them back in the ocean. The first man approaches the man trying to save
> the starfish and says "Sir, you can't possibly hope to save all these
> starfish". The other man bends over, picks up a starfish, throws it in
> the ocean and says "No, but I just saved that one".

It's called The Star Thrower, by Loren Eiseley, in his
book The Unexpected Universe. http://lccn.loc.gov/84022559

He also has a probably related title
http://lccn.loc.gov/67063808 which I have not seen but will
almost certainly want to own.

Eiseley is admired by readers as disparate as WH Auden,
Theodosius Dobzhansky, and Ray Bradbury; at least one reviewer
puts him in a class with Ralph Waldo Emerson -- but you may find
that that flatters Emerson.

--
Beartooth Staffwright, PhD, Neo-Redneck Linux Convert
What do they know of country, who only country know?
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Re: [BLUG] I don't think Linux will ever be ready for the Desktop

Thanks for the Cinepaint link. I've heard good things about it and
that was the reminder that I really do need to check it out. I'm off
to snag the PC Linux OS version now.

On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:
> On Fri, May 07, 2010 at 03:05:37PM GMT, Erik Wallace [eriktwallace@gmail.com] said the following:
>>
>> But this isn't the show stopper.  The show stopper is the fact that Gimp
>> does not support
>> more than 8bits per channel!  I'm sorry but it is precisely this sort of
>> shortcoming that
>> separates professional photo software from non-professional.
>
>  In case you aren't aware of it, there is an 8-bpp version of GIMP
> called FilmGimp that is now called Cinepaint.  It was made by Hollywood
> programmers who needed to use it in feature films like Little Nikki,
> Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings even.
>
>  http://www.cinepaint.org/
>
>  Actually its a good eye opener to view the Linux in Hollywood PDF
> presentation on that site because you'll probably be amazed by how many
> films have used Linux extensively.
>
>  http://www.cinepaint.org/conference/denmark.linuxmovies.2008.pdf
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mark Krenz
> Bloomington Linux Users Group
> http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>

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Re: [BLUG] I don't think Linux will ever be ready for the Desktop

On Fri, May 07, 2010 at 03:05:37PM GMT, Erik Wallace [eriktwallace@gmail.com] said the following:
>
> But this isn't the show stopper. The show stopper is the fact that Gimp
> does not support
> more than 8bits per channel! I'm sorry but it is precisely this sort of
> shortcoming that
> separates professional photo software from non-professional.

In case you aren't aware of it, there is an 8-bpp version of GIMP
called FilmGimp that is now called Cinepaint. It was made by Hollywood
programmers who needed to use it in feature films like Little Nikki,
Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings even.

http://www.cinepaint.org/

Actually its a good eye opener to view the Linux in Hollywood PDF
presentation on that site because you'll probably be amazed by how many
films have used Linux extensively.

http://www.cinepaint.org/conference/denmark.linuxmovies.2008.pdf


--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
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Re: [BLUG] I don't think Linux will ever be ready for the Desktop

On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Steven Black <yam655@gmail.com> wrote:

> I believe that the best open-source software is focused on serving the
> user population before it is focused on serving commercial purposes.

And I have to respectfully disagree. I'm focused on serving
commercial purposes. Why? Because I like having food on my table and
a house to put the table in, along with a decent car (and fuel) to
drive to and from the grocery store, etc. My computers are tools to
make a living, just like a carpenter uses a hammer and saw. Yes, I
want my tools to be comfortable and easy to use. But I also expect
them to a job, and if they don't do that job the way I need, they WILL
be replaced. And in certain applications, commercial software does a
better job.

> I am an open-source advocate as even when it doesn't focus on the
> user-population the way it should (such as GNOME) if there's a great
> fuss it can be forked and the new project can focus on the larger
> user-population.

This is true. But it is also a double-edged sword. There are a
number of projects over the years that have forked, and instead of one
or two really good packages, we end up with 47 packages that almost
sorta kinda work.

> Commercial packages may appear to provide more software features, but
> what you pay is far more than the $120+ for the download. You can't
> send someone usable data files unless they own identical software.

You're going to find that in the photo and video industry, an
overwhelming majority of the workers use the identical software. And
like it or not, it ain't GIMP. Even GIMP developers have stated they
are not shooting for the same audience as Photoshop.

> (Usable does *not* mean flattening a multi-layer image!) You can't

Apparently you're unaware that Photoshop does support formats other
than its own native format. And that includes popular lossless
formats. In fact, its a rarity that I save anything in Photoshop's
native format once I'm finished working on it with Photoshop. There
are better formats.

> We don't need *any* Adobe product. It should shame the Linux community
> that it was Steve Jobs saying they don't need Flash and not the Linux

I swear I mean no personal offense with this, but I'm going to be
honest. Using His Holiness The Pope Saint Steve The First as an
example of what the Linux community should do made me laugh out loud
and almost spit tea on my display. From what I see by his daily
actions, Steve Jobs is to FOSS as British Petroleum is to
environmentally friendly energy production.
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Re: [BLUG] I don't think Linux will ever be ready for the Desktop

On Fri, May 07, 2010 at 12:13:52PM GMT, Mark Warner [mhwarner@gmail.com] said the following:
> David M. Moore wrote:
> >
> > Having said that, though, I will say there is one thing that could
> > happen that could radically change that possibility over a very short
> > period of time. If Adobe would release a version of CS5 Master
> > Collection that ran natively on Linux, that could be the first nail in
> > Windows' coffin. If you look at any poll on the most wanted commercial
> > application for Linux, what ever the current version of Photoshop and
> > Premier is when the poll is taken is the winner every time. That could
> > be a serious game changer.
>
> Same for Quickbooks. That would make it a viable alternative in many
> small businesses.
>

It might be interesting for you to hear some feedback about how open
source desktop apps are being used professionally.

Marina (my wife who does web design/development at Suso) uses GIMP
professionally and says that there are some things that GIMP doesn't do
as well as Photoshop like fonts and various functionality that Photoshop
has for making buttons, drop shadows, etc. Sure, there are ways of
doing the extravagant things manually, but Photoshop already has lots of
builtin templates and plugins for quickly making these things. For GIMP
to do it would just be a matter of someone putting in the time to make
professional looking template packs and plugins or something. But few
people have and a lot of what is out there is very amaturish and they
are not organized well

Actually, I think this is what is missing from open source in general.
Professional libraries, templates and plugin packs for apps like GIMP,
Inkscape, Dia, Blender, etc. These things are simply a time saver so
that businesses see the competitive edge of using one software package
over another.

I remember back in the 90s (maybe its still the case) the different
office suites would make a big deal about how much clip art they had,
this was a big deal because so many people where using them for
brocheres, etc. and not having to buy extra clip art would be money
saved.

Suso uses Gnucash and so does my mother-in-law's new alterations
business in the mall. When she opened it up she bought a laptop and
decided to just use Windows 7, but when I said that we could get
Quickbooks or something for it if she wanted, she said she was
comfortable with Gnucash already because she had helped us at Suso.


--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
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