Re: [BLUG] The July Presentation

Those of us who can't attend thank you.

Though this time I'm not attending, not because I'll be 3 hours away
in Fort Wayne, but because I'll be several thousand miles away in
Venezuela.

Have fun!

On 6/30/07, Steven Black <blacks@indiana.edu> wrote:
> I'd then accompany the presentation online with an article going over the
> things I mentioned in the presentation with appropriate links.

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Re: [BLUG] Has the list gone quiet?

Agreed. The only time I ever had problems, it was because I had only
half-downloaded the right driver from linuxprinting.org. The majority
of the time I've installed a printer, the right drivers were install
by default.

On 6/30/07, Steven Black <blacks@indiana.edu> wrote:
> It has always been smooth as cake for me.

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[BLUG] The July Presentation

I was actually thinking of holding back on the Makefile presentation until
I needed to do a presentation off-the-cuff. I can yack about it at will for
hours.

I was part of the group that designed Be's non-recursive fully-dependant
GNU Make-based build system. I'm probably the only one on the list that
knows both that there were some very useful changes between GNU Make 3.80
and GNU Make 3.81, and what those changes were.

If we have a projector, I'm thinking of giving a presentation on making
GDM themes. Though I may do just an over-view and cover customizing the
entire initial boot up (for Ubuntu, at least) with Grub background images,
Usplash themes (the only part Ubuntu-specific), GDM themes, and easy themed
screen savers.

I'd then accompany the presentation online with an article going over the
things I mentioned in the presentation with appropriate links.

If there's no projector, I'll give more of a speech about GNU Make. It won't
have pretty pictures, but it'll have content.

One way or another, there will be a presentation.

Cheers,
Steven Black

On Fri, Jun 29, 2007 at 10:34:42PM +0000, ben lipkowitz wrote:
> Looks like you are the next presenter; congratulations!
> Seriously though, all the things on your list sounded good to me.
> (well, except for the migrating from evolution stuff)
>
> I'd be interested in hearing about "cool stuff in python" and "why
> Makefiles go bad".
>
> I got my first laser printer today and now have the joy of setting it up.
> Is it just me or does CUPS really suck? I thought I could just type
> "printconf" but no..
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Re: [BLUG] Has the list gone quiet?

It has always been smooth as cake for me.

I use gnome-cups-manager to configure printers. It has always been
easy and painless. So much so that I wouldn't even know how to do
a presentation about it. (I use Ubuntu.) Basically, I've just went to
System->Administration selected "Printers" double-clicked
"Add Printer" and followed the druid's prompts. This has worked for
me every time so far.

Please note, it looks like gnome-cups-manager is no longer supported
upstream and Ubuntu will eventually move to something else[1].

Prior to the GNOME/CUPS era, I managed to print using MagicFilter with
Ghostscript with LPD. Even that didn't seem particularly hard at the time.
(Certainly not as easy as CUPS.) If I remember proplerly, I basically just
installed the packages and did a minor adjustment of a text file to get
MagicFilter hooked up. I can't quite place the last time I did this.

Also note, I've always been careful about the printers I buy. Back in
the day, I actually had a printer well supported by both BeOS and Linux.
(It has historically been safe to either get a Postscript printer or an
Epson. Though at this point there are a lot more options.)

For those unaware, both my wife and I are big fans of the CUPS "PDF writer"
printer. Very handy.

Cheers,
Steven Black

[1] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/printerdrake

On Fri, Jun 29, 2007 at 06:47:38PM -0400, David Ernst wrote:
> My experiences with CUPS have also been very unhappy, and I'm gearing
> up for another one soon. If anyone out there thinks CUPS is easy and
> great, that would be another great presentation topic. :)
>
> David
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 29, 2007 at 10:34:42PM +0000, ben lipkowitz wrote:
> >Looks like you are the next presenter; congratulations!
> >Seriously though, all the things on your list sounded good to me.
> >(well, except for the migrating from evolution stuff)
> >
> >I'd be interested in hearing about "cool stuff in python" and "why
> >Makefiles go bad".
> >
> >I got my first laser printer today and now have the joy of setting it up.
> >Is it just me or does CUPS really suck? I thought I could just type
> >"printconf" but no..
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[BLUG] setting up an hp laserjet 1018 on debian

supposedly one can get a laserjet 1018 at (newegg|amazon|circuit city) for
approximately $35 shipped after rebate, (rebate ending tommorrow btw) so i
decided to give it a try.

the printer needs to load firmware with some sort of questionable
licensing so it won't work right out of the box on "pure" distros such as
debian. why they didnt just stick it in non-free i'll never know. i
haven't gotten the rebate yet but the printer does indeed work on debian
etch. inkscape prints nicely after adding a - to the lp command line;
still haven't figured out how to print from gimp though.

without further ado, here's the condensed howto for your googling pleasure

# how to install drivers for an hp laserjet 1018
wget -O foo2zjs.tar.gz http://foo2zjs.rkkda.com/foo2zjs.tar.gz
tar zxvf foo2*
cd foo2*
make
# go have some ice cream
./getweb 1018
sudo make install
sudo make install-hotplug
sudo make cups
#plug the printer in
lsusb
# you should see an entry something like:
# Bus 001 Device 002: ID 03f0:4117 Hewlett-Packard
# hint: dont boot up with printer plugged in
# if you do, you may get in dmesg:
# "usb 1-1: device descriptor read/64, error -110"
# i had to reboot to get it back, nfc why
sudo printconf
# go to http://localhost:631 and click "test page"
# click "allowed users" and add yer users (fenn) and authenticate root/pw :(
sudo /usr/sbin/lpadmin -p laserjet_1018 -u allow:all
# print a test image
lp -d laserjet_1018 -o scale=100 test.jpg

/\-/\
>( o.o )<
_____> <________fenn_____
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Re: [BLUG] Has the list gone quiet?

My experiences with CUPS have also been very unhappy, and I'm gearing
up for another one soon. If anyone out there thinks CUPS is easy and
great, that would be another great presentation topic. :)

David

On Fri, Jun 29, 2007 at 10:34:42PM +0000, ben lipkowitz wrote:
>Looks like you are the next presenter; congratulations!
>Seriously though, all the things on your list sounded good to me.
>(well, except for the migrating from evolution stuff)
>
>I'd be interested in hearing about "cool stuff in python" and "why
>Makefiles go bad".
>
>I got my first laser printer today and now have the joy of setting it up.
>Is it just me or does CUPS really suck? I thought I could just type
>"printconf" but no..
>
> /\-/\
> >( g.g,)<
>___P_> <_9____fenn_____
>
>
>>I've not seen anything from the list in some time.
>>
>>Do we know who is presenting what for the next meeting?
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Steven Black
>>
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Re: [BLUG] Has the list gone quiet?

Looks like you are the next presenter; congratulations!
Seriously though, all the things on your list sounded good to me.
(well, except for the migrating from evolution stuff)

I'd be interested in hearing about "cool stuff in python" and "why
Makefiles go bad".

I got my first laser printer today and now have the joy of setting it up.
Is it just me or does CUPS really suck? I thought I could just type
"printconf" but no..

/\-/\
>( g.g,)<
___P_> <_9____fenn_____

> I've not seen anything from the list in some time.
>
> Do we know who is presenting what for the next meeting?
>
> Cheers,
> Steven Black
>
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[BLUG] Has the list gone quiet?

I've not seen anything from the list in some time.

Do we know who is presenting what for the next meeting?

Cheers,
Steven Black

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[BLUG] Presentation ideas?

I think we should try to find out what types of presentations would be
interesting to people.

It seems to me that if we know what people want to hear about, it should
be relatively straight-forward to find someone willing to investigate it
and present it to the group. (Assuming there isn't already someone in the
group familiar with it.)

Me, I'm an old-school geek. I'm not at all an end-user. However, to draw
a larger group to the meetings, we want to make sure our presentations
appeal to a broad group of people... including new people at times.

My interests include:
* doing cool things in Python
* automation of regular/boring activities
+ Expect, PyExpect
+ Shell scripting
* build systems
+ Make, SCons
+ Subversion, other VCS
* World domination
+ Tools to take over the hearts and minds of the world
* Rogue-like games
+ Development, thereof
* Text-based user environments
+ Ncurses, S/Lang, etc.
+ Extended (and extending) terminal emulators

Things I've done recently include:
* migrated from Evolution to Mutt
+ Outlook Meetings supported through 'mical' and a Bash/Dialog
script I wrote myself.
+ integrated use of 'abook' addressbook; mutt aliases are updated
based on changes in abook.
* some relatively minor still-picture work with Video4Linux2
* on-going development of my own terminal emulator using Python/Tk

Things I could do presentations on:
* GNU Make and why Makefiles go bad
* Migrating from Evolution to Mutt
* Creating GDM themes

[BLUG] My presentation

I hate to do this, but I'm going to have to postpone my presentation
for a few months. I could probably do the September 11th or the one in
November.

The Bloomingpedia folks will be giving a big presentation at the
library on July 21st, and we have a rather full schedule to handle
preparations for that.

So could someone else commit to the July meeting?

--
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Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
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Re: [BLUG] mod_security help

On Sat, 2007-06-23 at 20:48 +0000, Mark Krenz wrote:
> Is anyone here using mod_security to block referal spammers? I don't
> need to just remove them from the logs, I need to block them so that
> they don't make costly requests to pages that have databases queries,
> etc.

I have not started using it yet, but I have been convinced that using it
is a good idea. It offers a lot of flexibility. I know it certainly
offers this capability. It can also block SQL injection attempts, buffer
over-run attempts, and a number of other potential problem scenarios.

The documentation is supposed to be pretty good, and the community
support is supposed to be good, too. (I've met the follow at Breach that
deals with the community.)

Cheers,
Steven Black

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Re: [BLUG] Presentation idea [Was: Where is everybody?]

On 6/19/07, Steven Black <blacks@indiana.edu> wrote:
> and I'm probably one of the few folks whose
> main requirement for a new cellphone is a good SSH implementation...

Does such a beast exist?

> With regards to the whole presentation about the desktop thing, I'm
> game. I'll get a novelty out of just going to my first BLUG meeting with
> a presentation. ;)

Yeah, that's partly my bad...

> Cheers,
> Steven Black

Cheers!

--
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[BLUG] mod_security help

Is anyone here using mod_security to block referal spammers? I don't
need to just remove them from the logs, I need to block them so that
they don't make costly requests to pages that have databases queries,
etc.

--
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Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
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[BLUG] Game tonight at 9pm - Unreal Tournament 2004

Just a reminder that we'll be playing Unreal Tournament 2004 tonight
starting at 9pm. Instructions are available here:

http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/wiki/Unreal_Tournament_2004_instructions

See you in the game world.

--
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Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
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Re: [BLUG] Can't Connect to IU VPN in Ubuntu

Ben Shewmaker wrote:
> I am trying to connect to the IU VPN in Ubuntu

Last semester, I connected fine with the older PPTP script. I don't
typically take classes in the summer so I haven't tried anything since
April/May but PPTP may be an option (unless UITS shut off PPTP in the
past few months).
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Re: [BLUG] Can't Connect to IU VPN in Ubuntu

Contact USSG at http://ussg.iu.edu/contact. Use your .indiana.edu or .iupui.edu email address and we will open a ticket and help you out.

On 6/22/07, Ben Shewmaker <benshewmaker@yahoo.com> wrote:

I am trying to connect to the IU VPN in Ubuntu using the USSG script found here:  http://www.ussg.iu.edu/support/documentation#iuvpn   I believe I've installed all the requirements listed on that page and I also think I'm following the directions correctly, but something isn't quite right as I can't connect.  I am connecting with my pc and its wired connection and I can connect to the VPN from Windows with no problem.  Here's what happens when I run the script:

ben@ben-desktop:~/sandbox/iu-vpn-ipsec-1.4$ sudo ./iu-vpn-ipsec start
Starting iu-vpn-ipsec: ipsec_setup: Starting Openswan IPsec 2.4.6...
ipsec_setup: insmod /lib/modules/2.6.20-16-generic/kernel/net/key/af_key.ko
ipsec_setup: insmod /lib/modules/2.6.20-16-generic/kernel/net/ipv4/xfrm4_tunnel.ko
ipsec_setup: insmod /lib/modules/2.6.20-16-generic/kernel/net/xfrm/xfrm_user.ko
104 "IUB" #1: STATE_MAIN_I1: initiate
003 "IUB" #1: received Vendor ID payload [draft-ietf-ipsec-nat-t-ike-02_n] method set to=106
003 "IUB" #1: ignoring unknown Vendor ID payload [4048b7d56ebce88525e7de7f00d6c2d3c0000000]
106 "IUB" #1: STATE_MAIN_I2: sent MI2, expecting MR2
003 "IUB" #1: received Vendor ID payload [Cisco-Unity]
003 "IUB" #1: received Vendor ID payload [XAUTH]
003 "IUB" #1: ignoring unknown Vendor ID payload [e2f72a5fb67877299ba6d38f82996be9]
003 "IUB" #1: ignoring Vendor ID payload [Cisco VPN 3000 Series]
003 "IUB" #1: NAT-Traversal: Result using draft-ietf-ipsec-nat-t-ike-02/03: i am NATed
108 "IUB" #1: STATE_MAIN_I3: sent MI3, expecting MR3
003 "IUB" #1: received Vendor ID payload [Dead Peer Detection]
004 "IUB" #1: STATE_MAIN_I4: ISAKMP SA established {auth=OAKLEY_PRESHARED_KEY cipher=oakley_3des_cbc_192 prf=oakley_md5 group=modp1024}
117 "IUB" #2: STATE_QUICK_I1: initiate
003 "IUB" #2: our client ID returned doesn't match my proposal
218 "IUB" #2: STATE_QUICK_I1: INVALID_ID_INFORMATION
SIOCDELRT: No such process
mkdir: cannot create directory `/var/run/xl2tpd': File exists
touch: cannot touch `/var/lock/subsys/l2tpd': No such file or directory  OK  ]

Enter password for akojika:
Connecting to VPN at IUB...

WWaiting up to 01 seconds for ppp0...
Error:  ppp0 not found. aborting... 
Possible mismatched username/passphrase.  Try again? y/[n]
n
Cleaning up connections
iptables: Bad rule (does a matching rule exist in that chain?)
iptables: Bad rule (does a matching rule exist in that chain?)
Could not remove rule to open port 500/UDP with iptables.
SIOCDELRT: No such device
Stopping iu-vpn-ipsec: Stopping /usr/sbin/xl2tpd:                                            [  OK  ]
ipsec_setup: Stopping Openswan IPsec...
Cleaning up...done.


Have I missed a crucial step somewhere?  I'd really appreciate any help you can throw my way.


Ben Shewmaker

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[BLUG] Can't Connect to IU VPN in Ubuntu

I am trying to connect to the IU VPN in Ubuntu using the USSG script found here:  http://www.ussg.iu.edu/support/documentation#iuvpn  I believe I've installed all the requirements listed on that page and I also think I'm following the directions correctly, but something isn't quite right as I can't connect.  I am connecting with my pc and its wired connection and I can connect to the VPN from Windows with no problem.  Here's what happens when I run the script:

ben@ben-desktop:~/sandbox/iu-vpn-ipsec-1.4$ sudo ./iu-vpn-ipsec start
Starting iu-vpn-ipsec: ipsec_setup: Starting Openswan IPsec 2.4.6...
ipsec_setup: insmod /lib/modules/2.6.20-16-generic/kernel/net/key/af_key.ko
ipsec_setup: insmod /lib/modules/2.6.20-16-generic/kernel/net/ipv4/xfrm4_tunnel.ko
ipsec_setup: insmod /lib/modules/2.6.20-16-generic/kernel/net/xfrm/xfrm_user.ko
104 "IUB" #1: STATE_MAIN_I1: initiate
003 "IUB" #1: received Vendor ID payload [draft-ietf-ipsec-nat-t-ike-02_n] method set to=106
003 "IUB" #1: ignoring unknown Vendor ID payload [4048b7d56ebce88525e7de7f00d6c2d3c0000000]
106 "IUB" #1: STATE_MAIN_I2: sent MI2, expecting MR2
003 "IUB" #1: received Vendor ID payload [Cisco-Unity]
003 "IUB" #1: received Vendor ID payload [XAUTH]
003 "IUB" #1: ignoring unknown Vendor ID payload [e2f72a5fb67877299ba6d38f82996be9]
003 "IUB" #1: ignoring Vendor ID payload [Cisco VPN 3000 Series]
003 "IUB" #1: NAT-Traversal: Result using draft-ietf-ipsec-nat-t-ike-02/03: i am NATed
108 "IUB" #1: STATE_MAIN_I3: sent MI3, expecting MR3
003 "IUB" #1: received Vendor ID payload [Dead Peer Detection]
004 "IUB" #1: STATE_MAIN_I4: ISAKMP SA established {auth=OAKLEY_PRESHARED_KEY cipher=oakley_3des_cbc_192 prf=oakley_md5 group=modp1024}
117 "IUB" #2: STATE_QUICK_I1: initiate
003 "IUB" #2: our client ID returned doesn't match my proposal
218 "IUB" #2: STATE_QUICK_I1: INVALID_ID_INFORMATION
SIOCDELRT: No such process
mkdir: cannot create directory `/var/run/xl2tpd': File exists
touch: cannot touch `/var/lock/subsys/l2tpd': No such file or directory  OK  ]

Enter password for akojika:
Connecting to VPN at IUB...

WWaiting up to 01 seconds for ppp0...
Error:  ppp0 not found. aborting... 
Possible mismatched username/passphrase.  Try again? y/[n]
n
Cleaning up connections
iptables: Bad rule (does a matching rule exist in that chain?)
iptables: Bad rule (does a matching rule exist in that chain?)
Could not remove rule to open port 500/UDP with iptables.
SIOCDELRT: No such device
Stopping iu-vpn-ipsec: Stopping /usr/sbin/xl2tpd:                                            [  OK  ]
ipsec_setup: Stopping Openswan IPsec...
Cleaning up...done.


Have I missed a crucial step somewhere?  I'd really appreciate any help you can throw my way.


Ben Shewmaker

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Re: [BLUG] [Fwd: protected files]

I don't believe it is that "lame" to ask a company to produce something
that is interoperable and of usefulness outside of their tools. I
believe that consumers can voice their opinion about DRM issues not only
through boycott, but also through active lobbying. Consumers of digital
music should at least be allowed to make backup copies or copies for
usage with other players. I'll avoid the long rant about Free Culture
and having the ability to make derivative works. Isn't that what Free
Software is all about? The ability to take a piece of software and do
just about whatever you want with it.

-Chris Colvard

Joe Auty wrote:
> iTunes is also starting to offer some DRM free tracks, although I'm
> not sure if this will apply to audiobooks or movies in addition to music.
>
> The way I look at all of this is that if you buy something, you buy it
> for what it is and accept it for what it is. If you are not hip to
> DRM, get your stuff from the library or some source that doesn't do
> this. If you decide to obtain your stuff illegally or manipulate your
> property by removing copyright protection, that is your personal
> choice and these are all choices we have to make, but it's kind of
> lame to ask people to help you to do this. I'm not suggesting that
> Kelly is asking for help since she is just unsure of what options she
> has, but I've seen this kind of thing happen on message boards and such.
>
> It's even more lame to complain about the product being protected in
> the first place after buying it, as it should be up to us to research
> what we are buying ahead of time (and up to the vendor to make this
> clear too). Perhaps iTunes should have a refund policy, but I'm not
> sure how they could facilitate deleting files from iTunes libraries
> (nor do I think that they should, in this case).
>
> In the case of Kelly, she said she wanted to play NetLibrary audio
> books (probably Windows Media protected) on her iPod, but then shared
> with you a URL about how to convert protected iTunes m4p files into
> mp3s. If iTunes won't play the file, it isn't protected by iTunes DRM.
>
>
>
> Steven Black wrote:
>> Removing copyright protection is a criminal act. It is a violation of
>> the DMCA.
>>
>> From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA
>>
>> |It criminalizes production and dissemination of technology, devices, or
>> |services that are used to circumvent measures that control access to
>> |copyrighted works (commonly known as DRM) and criminalizes the act of
>> |circumventing an access control, even when there is no infringement of
>> |copyright itself.
>>
>> In addition to violating US law, it likely also violates the license
>> agreements with those services.
>>
>> If you want free audiobooks, I recommend http://librivox.org/
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Steven Black
>>
>> On Fri, 2007-06-22 at 12:18 -0400, Jeff Welty wrote:
>>
>>> I'm forwarding this since I don't have much experience with media files
>>> such as the ones my friend is mentioning. I turned her on to Unix stuff
>>> a few semesters ago so she is willing to try any techniques on Linux.
>>> I'll relay any suggestions to her.
>>> Thanx,
>>> Jeff
>>> email message attachment (protected files)
>>>
>>>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>>> From: Polacek, Kelly Myer <kpolacek@indiana.edu>
>>>> To: jtwelty@imap.iu.edu
>>>> Subject: protected files
>>>> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:45:29 -0400
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BLUG mailing list
>> BLUG@linuxfan.com
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>>
>
>
> --
> Joe Auty
> NetMusician: web publishing software for musicians
> http://www.netmusician.org
> joe@netmusician.org
>
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Re: [BLUG] [Fwd: protected files]

The DMCA stuff is crazy. I don't agree with the logic at all. (I suspect
few people could agree with the logic and be supporters of free
software.)

Speaking of troubles with DRM...

I've rented a DVD only to find it didn't work on the DVD player we were
going to use to watch it.

Was there anything wrong with the DVD? No, it looked new or almost new.
In fact, it worked on another DVD player. However, it just had
copy-protection logic which was a little over-aggressive and broke that
DVD player.

Mind you, the DVD player was unaltered. It wasn't like it was an issue
with a region-free DVD player trying to play an "Enhanced Region 1" DVD.
(See http://www.dvdtalk.com/rce.html for details on Regional Coding
Enhancement.)

Legally my only recourse was to watch the DVD in another room with a
player that supported that copy-protection technology. (Or to return the
disc for a refund.)

It is just a matter of time before music and movies come with an EULA
explicitly stating you have a license to watch/view the media and you do
not own it, much like commercial software.

Cheers,
Steven Black

On Fri, 2007-06-22 at 13:02 -0400, Joe Auty wrote:
> iTunes is also starting to offer some DRM free tracks, although I'm
> not sure if this will apply to audiobooks or movies in addition to
> music.
>
> The way I look at all of this is that if you buy something, you buy it
> for what it is and accept it for what it is. If you are not hip to
> DRM, get your stuff from the library or some source that doesn't do
> this. If you decide to obtain your stuff illegally or manipulate your
> property by removing copyright protection, that is your personal
> choice and these are all choices we have to make, but it's kind of
> lame to ask people to help you to do this. I'm not suggesting that
> Kelly is asking for help since she is just unsure of what options she
> has, but I've seen this kind of thing happen on message boards and
> such.
>
> It's even more lame to complain about the product being protected in
> the first place after buying it, as it should be up to us to research
> what we are buying ahead of time (and up to the vendor to make this
> clear too). Perhaps iTunes should have a refund policy, but I'm not
> sure how they could facilitate deleting files from iTunes libraries
> (nor do I think that they should, in this case).
>
> In the case of Kelly, she said she wanted to play NetLibrary audio
> books (probably Windows Media protected) on her iPod, but then shared
> with you a URL about how to convert protected iTunes m4p files into
> mp3s. If iTunes won't play the file, it isn't protected by iTunes DRM.
>
>
>
> Steven Black wrote:
> > Removing copyright protection is a criminal act. It is a violation of
> > the DMCA.
> >
> > From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA
> >
> > |It criminalizes production and dissemination of technology, devices, or
> > |services that are used to circumvent measures that control access to
> > |copyrighted works (commonly known as DRM) and criminalizes the act of
> > |circumventing an access control, even when there is no infringement of
> > |copyright itself.
> >
> > In addition to violating US law, it likely also violates the license
> > agreements with those services.
> >
> > If you want free audiobooks, I recommend http://librivox.org/
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Steven Black
> >
> > On Fri, 2007-06-22 at 12:18 -0400, Jeff Welty wrote:
> >
> > > I'm forwarding this since I don't have much experience with media files
> > > such as the ones my friend is mentioning. I turned her on to Unix stuff
> > > a few semesters ago so she is willing to try any techniques on Linux.
> > > I'll relay any suggestions to her.
> > > Thanx,
> > > Jeff
> > > email message attachment (protected files)
> > >
> > > > -------- Forwarded Message --------
> > > > From: Polacek, Kelly Myer <kpolacek@indiana.edu>
> > > > To: jtwelty@imap.iu.edu
> > > > Subject: protected files
> > > > Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:45:29 -0400
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > BLUG mailing list
> > BLUG@linuxfan.com
> > http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
> >
>
>
> --
> Joe Auty
> NetMusician: web publishing software for musicians
> http://www.netmusician.org
> joe@netmusician.org

_______________________________________________
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Re: [BLUG] [Fwd: protected files]

iTunes is also starting to offer some DRM free tracks, although I'm not sure if this will apply to audiobooks or movies in addition to music.

The way I look at all of this is that if you buy something, you buy it for what it is and accept it for what it is. If you are not hip to DRM, get your stuff from the library or some source that doesn't do this. If you decide to obtain your stuff illegally or manipulate your property by removing copyright protection, that is your personal choice and these are all choices we have to make, but it's kind of lame to ask people to help you to do this. I'm not suggesting that Kelly is asking for help since she is just unsure of what options she has, but I've seen this kind of thing happen on message boards and such.

It's even more lame to complain about the product being protected in the first place after buying it, as it should be up to us to research what we are buying ahead of time (and up to the vendor to make this clear too). Perhaps iTunes should have a refund policy, but I'm not sure how they could facilitate deleting files from iTunes libraries (nor do I think that they should, in this case).

In the case of Kelly, she said she wanted to play NetLibrary audio books (probably Windows Media protected) on her iPod, but then shared with you a URL about how to convert protected iTunes m4p files into mp3s. If iTunes won't play the file, it isn't protected by iTunes DRM.



Steven Black wrote:

Removing copyright protection is a criminal act. It is a violation of the DMCA.  From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA  |It criminalizes production and dissemination of technology, devices, or |services that are used to circumvent measures that control access to  |copyrighted works (commonly known as DRM) and criminalizes the act of  |circumventing an access control, even when there is no infringement of |copyright itself.  In addition to violating US law, it likely also violates the license agreements with those services.  If you want free audiobooks, I recommend http://librivox.org/  Cheers, Steven Black  On Fri, 2007-06-22 at 12:18 -0400, Jeff Welty wrote:   

I'm forwarding this since I don't have much experience with media files  such as the ones my friend is mentioning. I turned her on to Unix stuff  a few semesters ago so she is willing to try any techniques on Linux.  I'll relay any suggestions to her. Thanx, Jeff email message attachment (protected files)     

-------- Forwarded Message -------- From: Polacek, Kelly Myer <kpolacek@indiana.edu> To: jtwelty@imap.iu.edu Subject: protected files Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:45:29 -0400        

 _______________________________________________ BLUG mailing list BLUG@linuxfan.com http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug   

--  Joe Auty NetMusician: web publishing software for musicians http://www.netmusician.org joe@netmusician.org 

Re: [BLUG] [Fwd: protected files]

Removing copyright protection is a criminal act. It is a violation of
the DMCA.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA

|It criminalizes production and dissemination of technology, devices, or
|services that are used to circumvent measures that control access to
|copyrighted works (commonly known as DRM) and criminalizes the act of
|circumventing an access control, even when there is no infringement of
|copyright itself.

In addition to violating US law, it likely also violates the license
agreements with those services.

If you want free audiobooks, I recommend http://librivox.org/

Cheers,
Steven Black

On Fri, 2007-06-22 at 12:18 -0400, Jeff Welty wrote:
> I'm forwarding this since I don't have much experience with media files
> such as the ones my friend is mentioning. I turned her on to Unix stuff
> a few semesters ago so she is willing to try any techniques on Linux.
> I'll relay any suggestions to her.
> Thanx,
> Jeff
> email message attachment (protected files)
> > -------- Forwarded Message --------
> > From: Polacek, Kelly Myer <kpolacek@indiana.edu>
> > To: jtwelty@imap.iu.edu
> > Subject: protected files
> > Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:45:29 -0400
> >

_______________________________________________
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BLUG@linuxfan.com
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[BLUG] [Fwd: protected files]

I'm forwarding this since I don't have much experience with media files
such as the ones my friend is mentioning. I turned her on to Unix stuff
a few semesters ago so she is willing to try any techniques on Linux.
I'll relay any suggestions to her.
Thanx,
Jeff

Re: [BLUG] Presentation idea [Was: Where is everybody?]

Well, consider it confirmed then. July 10th?

On Tue, Jun 19, 2007 at 02:21:27PM GMT, Scott Blaydes [sblaydes@sbce.org] said the following:
> Actually I like the idea of Mark's presentation, I just haven't
> confirmed with him yet.
>
> Thank you,
> Scott Blaydes
>
>
>
> David Ernst wrote:
> >No one else is chiming in, so I don't know if that's a sign or not,
> >but I stand by my previous confidence that I'd get a lot out of this
> >presentation. Of course, if the past is any indication, something
> >will probably come up the day of the meeting that will keep me from
> >seeing it anyway. :-\
> >
> >David
> >
> >
> >On Mon, Jun 18, 2007 at 03:44:05PM +0000, Mark Krenz wrote:
> >> Well it would be more than just "Here is my desktop in all its glory,
> >>bow before it" kinda thing. It would be more of showing you how I use
> >>computers to get things done. What programs I use that make processing
> >>easier, what mail program I use and why, etc. Perhaps calling it a
> >>presentation on my desktop is inaccurate, it should have been called a
> >>presentation on how I use computers in my daily life.
> >>
> >>On Mon, Jun 18, 2007 at 02:33:03PM GMT, David Ernst
> >>[david.ernst@davidernst.net] said the following:
> >>>Mark, if you think there's something interesting about your desktop, I
> >>>strongly suspect I would be interested in seeing it. :) "Tips and
> >>>Tricks" are one of the most valuable things about this kind of
> >>>meeting, imho...
> >>>
> >>>David
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>On Wed, Jun 13, 2007 at 01:40:53AM +0000, Mark Krenz wrote:
> >>>> That's too bad. There always seemed to be a different crowd during
> >>>>the summer months than the rest of the year. Makes sense. Maybe those
> >>>>people didn't get the word this year about the group.
> >>>>
> >>>> Actually, I was thinking lately that I'd like to do a presentation,
> >>>>maybe next month, on my own personal desktop. It may sound boring but I
> >>>>wanted to share with everyone how I use my computer. Not that I'm
> >>>>specifically interesting, but it would be a good presentation for
> >>>>picking up lots of tips and tricks. I was thinking that I could get my
> >>>>hands on two LCD projectors and show how I utilize two screens. I think
> >>>>I could do it in July or August.
> >>>>
> >>>>Does this interest anyone?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>On Tue, Jun 12, 2007 at 11:22:12PM GMT, Black, Steven Wayne
> >>>>[blacks@indiana.edu] said the following:
> >>>>>I left the meeting room (1C) after 15 minutes of waiting for the first
> >>>>>person to show up.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>It is the second Tuesday. It was 7pm. It was the room next door to the
> >>>>>room we usually use.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>What happened?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>-- Steven
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>BLUG mailing list
> >>>>>BLUG@linuxfan.com
> >>>>>http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
> >>>>>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

[BLUG] Upcoming gaming sessions

Here is your weekly notice of upcoming gaming sessions. All games start
at 9pm unless otherwise noted.

This Saturday, June 23rd: Unreal Tournament 2004

June 30th: BZFlag
July 7th: World of Padman
July 14th: Neverwinter Nights
July 21st: World of Padman
July 28th: Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory

More information and instructions for setup are available at on the
BLUG wiki:

http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/wiki/Weekly_BLUGers_gaming_session

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
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Re: [BLUG] Presentation idea [Was: Where is everybody?]

On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 13:05 -0400, Matt Standish wrote:
> Is it a VT105 terminal hooked to a slack box? Running lynx and pine?
> Or maybe even links -g?
>
> I kid!

For light-weight hardware links2 -g is *great*.

I have some older hardware that due to age, tends to run a little more
smoothly outside of X. (At least, outside of GNOME and KDE.) I really
quite being able to use a graphical webclient on the framebuffer.

Then again... it was less than a year ago that I finally got rid of my
old Beehive dumb-terminal... and I'm probably one of the few folks whose
main requirement for a new cellphone is a good SSH implementation...

With regards to the whole presentation about the desktop thing, I'm
game. I'll get a novelty out of just going to my first BLUG meeting with
a presentation. ;)

Cheers,
Steven Black

_______________________________________________
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Re: [BLUG] Presentation idea [Was: Where is everybody?]

I find the presentation idea very interesting and hope to show up for it.

Quoting David Ernst <david.ernst@davidernst.net>:

> No one else is chiming in, so I don't know if that's a sign or not,
> but I stand by my previous confidence that I'd get a lot out of this
> presentation. Of course, if the past is any indication, something
> will probably come up the day of the meeting that will keep me from
> seeing it anyway. :-\
>
> David

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Re: [BLUG] Presentation idea [Was: Where is everybody?]

Actually I like the idea of Mark's presentation, I just haven't
confirmed with him yet.

Thank you,
Scott Blaydes

David Ernst wrote:
> No one else is chiming in, so I don't know if that's a sign or not,
> but I stand by my previous confidence that I'd get a lot out of this
> presentation. Of course, if the past is any indication, something
> will probably come up the day of the meeting that will keep me from
> seeing it anyway. :-\
>
> David
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 18, 2007 at 03:44:05PM +0000, Mark Krenz wrote:
>> Well it would be more than just "Here is my desktop in all its glory,
>> bow before it" kinda thing. It would be more of showing you how I use
>> computers to get things done. What programs I use that make processing
>> easier, what mail program I use and why, etc. Perhaps calling it a
>> presentation on my desktop is inaccurate, it should have been called a
>> presentation on how I use computers in my daily life.
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 18, 2007 at 02:33:03PM GMT, David Ernst [david.ernst@davidernst.net] said the following:
>>> Mark, if you think there's something interesting about your desktop, I
>>> strongly suspect I would be interested in seeing it. :) "Tips and
>>> Tricks" are one of the most valuable things about this kind of
>>> meeting, imho...
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 13, 2007 at 01:40:53AM +0000, Mark Krenz wrote:
>>>> That's too bad. There always seemed to be a different crowd during
>>>> the summer months than the rest of the year. Makes sense. Maybe those
>>>> people didn't get the word this year about the group.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, I was thinking lately that I'd like to do a presentation,
>>>> maybe next month, on my own personal desktop. It may sound boring but I
>>>> wanted to share with everyone how I use my computer. Not that I'm
>>>> specifically interesting, but it would be a good presentation for
>>>> picking up lots of tips and tricks. I was thinking that I could get my
>>>> hands on two LCD projectors and show how I utilize two screens. I think
>>>> I could do it in July or August.
>>>>
>>>> Does this interest anyone?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jun 12, 2007 at 11:22:12PM GMT, Black, Steven Wayne [blacks@indiana.edu] said the following:
>>>>> I left the meeting room (1C) after 15 minutes of waiting for the first
>>>>> person to show up.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is the second Tuesday. It was 7pm. It was the room next door to the
>>>>> room we usually use.
>>>>>
>>>>> What happened?
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Steven
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> BLUG mailing list
>>>>> BLUG@linuxfan.com
>>>>> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>>>>>
>

_______________________________________________
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BLUG@linuxfan.com
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Re: [BLUG] Presentation idea [Was: Where is everybody?]

No one else is chiming in, so I don't know if that's a sign or not,
but I stand by my previous confidence that I'd get a lot out of this
presentation. Of course, if the past is any indication, something
will probably come up the day of the meeting that will keep me from
seeing it anyway. :-\

David

On Mon, Jun 18, 2007 at 03:44:05PM +0000, Mark Krenz wrote:
>
> Well it would be more than just "Here is my desktop in all its glory,
>bow before it" kinda thing. It would be more of showing you how I use
>computers to get things done. What programs I use that make processing
>easier, what mail program I use and why, etc. Perhaps calling it a
>presentation on my desktop is inaccurate, it should have been called a
>presentation on how I use computers in my daily life.
>
>On Mon, Jun 18, 2007 at 02:33:03PM GMT, David Ernst [david.ernst@davidernst.net] said the following:
>> Mark, if you think there's something interesting about your desktop, I
>> strongly suspect I would be interested in seeing it. :) "Tips and
>> Tricks" are one of the most valuable things about this kind of
>> meeting, imho...
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 13, 2007 at 01:40:53AM +0000, Mark Krenz wrote:
>> >
>> > That's too bad. There always seemed to be a different crowd during
>> >the summer months than the rest of the year. Makes sense. Maybe those
>> >people didn't get the word this year about the group.
>> >
>> > Actually, I was thinking lately that I'd like to do a presentation,
>> >maybe next month, on my own personal desktop. It may sound boring but I
>> >wanted to share with everyone how I use my computer. Not that I'm
>> >specifically interesting, but it would be a good presentation for
>> >picking up lots of tips and tricks. I was thinking that I could get my
>> >hands on two LCD projectors and show how I utilize two screens. I think
>> >I could do it in July or August.
>> >
>> > Does this interest anyone?
>> >
>> >
>> >On Tue, Jun 12, 2007 at 11:22:12PM GMT, Black, Steven Wayne [blacks@indiana.edu] said the following:
>> >> I left the meeting room (1C) after 15 minutes of waiting for the first
>> >> person to show up.
>> >>
>> >> It is the second Tuesday. It was 7pm. It was the room next door to the
>> >> room we usually use.
>> >>
>> >> What happened?
>> >>
>> >> -- Steven
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> BLUG mailing list
>> >> BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> >> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>> >>
>> >
>>
>

--
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Re: [BLUG] Presentation idea [Was: Where is everybody?]

Is it a VT105 terminal hooked to a slack box?  Running lynx and pine?  Or maybe even links -g?

I kid!

On 6/18/07, Mark Krenz < mark@slugbug.org> wrote:

  Well it would be more than just "Here is my desktop in all its glory,
bow before it" kinda thing.  It would be more of showing you how I use
computers to get things done.  What programs I use that make processing
easier, what mail program I use and why, etc.  Perhaps calling it a
presentation on my desktop is inaccurate, it should have been called a
presentation on how I use computers in my daily life.

On Mon, Jun 18, 2007 at 02:33:03PM GMT, David Ernst [ david.ernst@davidernst.net] said the following:
> Mark, if you think there's something interesting about your desktop, I
> strongly suspect I would be interested in seeing it.  :)  "Tips and
> Tricks" are one of the most valuable things about this kind of
> meeting, imho...
>
> David
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 13, 2007 at 01:40:53AM +0000, Mark Krenz wrote:
> >
> >  That's too bad.  There always seemed to be a different crowd during
> >the summer months than the rest of the year.  Makes sense.  Maybe those
> >people didn't get the word this year about the group.
> >
> >  Actually, I was thinking lately that I'd like to do a presentation,
> >maybe next month, on my own personal desktop.  It may sound boring but I
> >wanted to share with everyone how I use my computer.  Not that I'm
> >specifically interesting, but it would be a good presentation for
> >picking up lots of tips and tricks.  I was thinking that I could get my
> >hands on two LCD projectors and show how I utilize two screens.  I think
> >I could do it in July or August.
> >
> > Does this interest anyone?
> >
> >
> >On Tue, Jun 12, 2007 at 11:22:12PM GMT, Black,  Steven Wayne [blacks@indiana.edu] said the following:
> >> I left the meeting room (1C) after 15 minutes of waiting for the first
> >> person to show up.
> >>
> >> It is the second Tuesday. It was 7pm. It was the room next door to the
> >> room we usually use.
> >>
> >> What happened?
> >>
> >> -- Steven
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> BLUG mailing list
> >> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> >> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
> >>
> >
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>

--
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Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

--
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MSN Messenger: mps_@hotmail.com
Yahoo Messenger: mattstandish@yahoo.com
Google Talk: mstandish

Re: [BLUG] Presentation idea [Was: Where is everybody?]

Well it would be more than just "Here is my desktop in all its glory,
bow before it" kinda thing. It would be more of showing you how I use
computers to get things done. What programs I use that make processing
easier, what mail program I use and why, etc. Perhaps calling it a
presentation on my desktop is inaccurate, it should have been called a
presentation on how I use computers in my daily life.

On Mon, Jun 18, 2007 at 02:33:03PM GMT, David Ernst [david.ernst@davidernst.net] said the following:
> Mark, if you think there's something interesting about your desktop, I
> strongly suspect I would be interested in seeing it. :) "Tips and
> Tricks" are one of the most valuable things about this kind of
> meeting, imho...
>
> David
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 13, 2007 at 01:40:53AM +0000, Mark Krenz wrote:
> >
> > That's too bad. There always seemed to be a different crowd during
> >the summer months than the rest of the year. Makes sense. Maybe those
> >people didn't get the word this year about the group.
> >
> > Actually, I was thinking lately that I'd like to do a presentation,
> >maybe next month, on my own personal desktop. It may sound boring but I
> >wanted to share with everyone how I use my computer. Not that I'm
> >specifically interesting, but it would be a good presentation for
> >picking up lots of tips and tricks. I was thinking that I could get my
> >hands on two LCD projectors and show how I utilize two screens. I think
> >I could do it in July or August.
> >
> > Does this interest anyone?
> >
> >
> >On Tue, Jun 12, 2007 at 11:22:12PM GMT, Black, Steven Wayne [blacks@indiana.edu] said the following:
> >> I left the meeting room (1C) after 15 minutes of waiting for the first
> >> person to show up.
> >>
> >> It is the second Tuesday. It was 7pm. It was the room next door to the
> >> room we usually use.
> >>
> >> What happened?
> >>
> >> -- Steven
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> BLUG mailing list
> >> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> >> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
> >>
> >
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Re: [BLUG] Presentation idea [Was: Where is everybody?]

Mark, if you think there's something interesting about your desktop, I
strongly suspect I would be interested in seeing it. :) "Tips and
Tricks" are one of the most valuable things about this kind of
meeting, imho...

David

On Wed, Jun 13, 2007 at 01:40:53AM +0000, Mark Krenz wrote:
>
> That's too bad. There always seemed to be a different crowd during
>the summer months than the rest of the year. Makes sense. Maybe those
>people didn't get the word this year about the group.
>
> Actually, I was thinking lately that I'd like to do a presentation,
>maybe next month, on my own personal desktop. It may sound boring but I
>wanted to share with everyone how I use my computer. Not that I'm
>specifically interesting, but it would be a good presentation for
>picking up lots of tips and tricks. I was thinking that I could get my
>hands on two LCD projectors and show how I utilize two screens. I think
>I could do it in July or August.
>
> Does this interest anyone?
>
>
>On Tue, Jun 12, 2007 at 11:22:12PM GMT, Black, Steven Wayne [blacks@indiana.edu] said the following:
>> I left the meeting room (1C) after 15 minutes of waiting for the first
>> person to show up.
>>
>> It is the second Tuesday. It was 7pm. It was the room next door to the
>> room we usually use.
>>
>> What happened?
>>
>> -- Steven
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BLUG mailing list
>> BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>>
>

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[BLUG] Playing BZFlag in 2 hours

Just a reminder that we'll be playing our weekly game starting at 9pm
tonight. This week we're playing BZFlag. Here are instructions:

http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/wiki/BZFlag_instructions

See you in the field.

--
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Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
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BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
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[BLUG] Room reserved for July

Still pending final approval, but I expect no trouble.

The room reservation request is complete for:
Contact: Steven Black
Room: Meeting Room 1B
Date(s): 7/10/2007
Time: 7:00 PM to 9:00 PM

Cheers,
Steven Black

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Re: [BLUG] Presentation idea [Was: Where is everybody?]

I must agree, from afar.

I might mention that up here we have two meetings a month; one get
together with a presentation (usually at the high school where I
work's computer lab, except that room has some concrete saws and
drills working on it right now), and one "business" meeting at a local
restaurant/brewery.

The first order of business is usually "What beer would you like?",
then sometimes "Who's eating, and do you want to go in on a pizza?",
and then general chatting with a natural bent towards the geeky.
Actual "LUG business" does often get discussed, though after the
chattiness dies down a little, rather than the other way around.

I must say I would have definitely attended and enjoyed such
get-togethers if the BLUG had had them. I enjoyed eating dinner after
the meetings a few times with people (Scott and Steven off the top of
my head), but that's not the same, really, since most people had to
leave by that point.

If there's any place in Bloomington that's like Mad Anthony's it's the
Upland on 11th Street.

Just a thought.

Simón

On 6/14/07, Black, Steven Wayne <blacks@indiana.edu> wrote:
> This reminds me too much of my niece describing what she thought the
> group may be like... a bunch of geeky folks sitting around a circle
> clutching their laptops. Which is to say, more like a support group for
> people addicted to their computers (which happen to run Linux) than a
> social group for people who like Linux.
>
> My interest in the BLUG is primarily social. Sitting around at home
> watching something recording previously doesn't sound that social.
>
> Cheers,
> Steven Black

--
-Simón A. Ruiz

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Re: [BLUG] Presentation idea [Was: Where is everybody?]

This reminds me too much of my niece describing what she thought the
group may be like... a bunch of geeky folks sitting around a circle
clutching their laptops. Which is to say, more like a support group for
people addicted to their computers (which happen to run Linux) than a
social group for people who like Linux.

My interest in the BLUG is primarily social. Sitting around at home
watching something recording previously doesn't sound that social.

Cheers,
Steven Black

Quoting Weldon Sams <wsams@indiana.edu>:

> Hey Mark, I just had an idea. Since we're all puter-people, how hard would
> it be to set up a video conferencing session for a meeting or even to video
> a session and post it on you tube or something with plenty of bandwidth.
>
> On 6/12/07, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> That's too bad. There always seemed to be a different crowd during
>> the summer months than the rest of the year. Makes sense. Maybe those
>> people didn't get the word this year about the group.
>>
>> Actually, I was thinking lately that I'd like to do a presentation,
>> maybe next month, on my own personal desktop. It may sound boring but I
>> wanted to share with everyone how I use my computer. Not that I'm
>> specifically interesting, but it would be a good presentation for
>> picking up lots of tips and tricks. I was thinking that I could get my
>> hands on two LCD projectors and show how I utilize two screens. I think
>> I could do it in July or August.
>>
>> Does this interest anyone?
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 12, 2007 at 11:22:12PM GMT, Black, Steven Wayne [
>> blacks@indiana.edu] said the following:
>> > I left the meeting room (1C) after 15 minutes of waiting for the first
>> > person to show up.
>> >
>> > It is the second Tuesday. It was 7pm. It was the room next door to the
>> > room we usually use.
>> >
>> > What happened?
>> >
>> > -- Steven
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > BLUG mailing list
>> > BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> > http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Mark Krenz
>> Bloomington Linux Users Group
>> http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
>> _______________________________________________
>> BLUG mailing list
>> BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Weldon Sams
> wsams@indiana.edu
>

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Re: [BLUG] Presentation idea [Was: Where is everybody?]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Just as a comment on this, when the USSG started streaming their Unix
Users' Group meetings a while back, we ended up doing a lot of
presentations to a camera and maybe one audience member. The number of
stream views was pretty high, but in-person attendance was poor, leading
to an eventual degradation of presentation quality. This might be a
reflection of topic choices, but it seems that if you're looking to get
people involved, letting them "participate" from home can have some
ramifications on attendance. On the flipside, if you want to provide
some streamed content, you can reach a lot more people.

Rich

adam wrote:
>
>
> I much prefer Human contact myself, but i have a good
> video camera if thats what everyone wants to do.
>
>
>
> --- Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:
>
>> If someone wants to do that, its fine with me.
>> But I don't really
>> know what to do to make that happen.
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 13, 2007 at 06:37:36PM GMT, Weldon Sams
>> [wsams@indiana.edu] said the following:
>>> Hey Mark, I just had an idea. Since we're all
>> puter-people, how hard would
>>> it be to set up a video conferencing session for a
>> meeting or even to video
>>> a session and post it on you tube or something
>> with plenty of bandwidth.
>>> On 6/12/07, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> That's too bad. There always seemed to be a
>> different crowd during
>>>> the summer months than the rest of the year.
>> Makes sense. Maybe those
>>>> people didn't get the word this year about the
>> group.
>>>> Actually, I was thinking lately that I'd like
>> to do a presentation,
>>>> maybe next month, on my own personal desktop. It
>> may sound boring but I
>>>> wanted to share with everyone how I use my
>> computer. Not that I'm
>>>> specifically interesting, but it would be a good
>> presentation for
>>>> picking up lots of tips and tricks. I was
>> thinking that I could get my
>>>> hands on two LCD projectors and show how I
>> utilize two screens. I think
>>>> I could do it in July or August.
>>>>
>>>> Does this interest anyone?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jun 12, 2007 at 11:22:12PM GMT, Black,
>> Steven Wayne [
>>>> blacks@indiana.edu] said the following:
>>>>> I left the meeting room (1C) after 15 minutes
>> of waiting for the first
>>>>> person to show up.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is the second Tuesday. It was 7pm. It was
>> the room next door to the
>>>>> room we usually use.
>>>>>
>>>>> What happened?
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Steven
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> BLUG mailing list
>>>>> BLUG@linuxfan.com
>>>>>
>> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>>>> --
>>>> Mark Krenz
>>>> Bloomington Linux Users Group
>>>> http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BLUG mailing list
>>>> BLUG@linuxfan.com
>>> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Weldon Sams
>>> wsams@indiana.edu
>> --
>> Mark Krenz
>> Bloomington Linux Users Group
>> http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
>> _______________________________________________
>> BLUG mailing list
>> BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
> http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

- --
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Knepper rknepper@indiana.edu
Grid Infrastructure Group 812.855.9574

"You deserve free software."
PGP Public Key:
http://php.indiana.edu/~rknepper/rknepper_pubkey.asc
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Re: [BLUG] Presentation idea [Was: Where is everybody?]

I much prefer Human contact myself, but i have a good
video camera if thats what everyone wants to do.

--- Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:

>
> If someone wants to do that, its fine with me.
> But I don't really
> know what to do to make that happen.
>
> On Wed, Jun 13, 2007 at 06:37:36PM GMT, Weldon Sams
> [wsams@indiana.edu] said the following:
> > Hey Mark, I just had an idea. Since we're all
> puter-people, how hard would
> > it be to set up a video conferencing session for a
> meeting or even to video
> > a session and post it on you tube or something
> with plenty of bandwidth.
> >
> > On 6/12/07, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > That's too bad. There always seemed to be a
> different crowd during
> > >the summer months than the rest of the year.
> Makes sense. Maybe those
> > >people didn't get the word this year about the
> group.
> > >
> > > Actually, I was thinking lately that I'd like
> to do a presentation,
> > >maybe next month, on my own personal desktop. It
> may sound boring but I
> > >wanted to share with everyone how I use my
> computer. Not that I'm
> > >specifically interesting, but it would be a good
> presentation for
> > >picking up lots of tips and tricks. I was
> thinking that I could get my
> > >hands on two LCD projectors and show how I
> utilize two screens. I think
> > >I could do it in July or August.
> > >
> > >Does this interest anyone?
> > >
> > >
> > >On Tue, Jun 12, 2007 at 11:22:12PM GMT, Black,
> Steven Wayne [
> > >blacks@indiana.edu] said the following:
> > >> I left the meeting room (1C) after 15 minutes
> of waiting for the first
> > >> person to show up.
> > >>
> > >> It is the second Tuesday. It was 7pm. It was
> the room next door to the
> > >> room we usually use.
> > >>
> > >> What happened?
> > >>
> > >> -- Steven
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> BLUG mailing list
> > >> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> > >>
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
> > >>
> > >
> > >--
> > >Mark Krenz
> > >Bloomington Linux Users Group
> > >http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >BLUG mailing list
> > >BLUG@linuxfan.com
> >
> >http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Weldon Sams
> > wsams@indiana.edu
>
> --
> Mark Krenz
> Bloomington Linux Users Group
> http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>

____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Re: [BLUG] Presentation idea [Was: Where is everybody?]

If someone wants to do that, its fine with me. But I don't really
know what to do to make that happen.

On Wed, Jun 13, 2007 at 06:37:36PM GMT, Weldon Sams [wsams@indiana.edu] said the following:
> Hey Mark, I just had an idea. Since we're all puter-people, how hard would
> it be to set up a video conferencing session for a meeting or even to video
> a session and post it on you tube or something with plenty of bandwidth.
>
> On 6/12/07, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> > That's too bad. There always seemed to be a different crowd during
> >the summer months than the rest of the year. Makes sense. Maybe those
> >people didn't get the word this year about the group.
> >
> > Actually, I was thinking lately that I'd like to do a presentation,
> >maybe next month, on my own personal desktop. It may sound boring but I
> >wanted to share with everyone how I use my computer. Not that I'm
> >specifically interesting, but it would be a good presentation for
> >picking up lots of tips and tricks. I was thinking that I could get my
> >hands on two LCD projectors and show how I utilize two screens. I think
> >I could do it in July or August.
> >
> >Does this interest anyone?
> >
> >
> >On Tue, Jun 12, 2007 at 11:22:12PM GMT, Black, Steven Wayne [
> >blacks@indiana.edu] said the following:
> >> I left the meeting room (1C) after 15 minutes of waiting for the first
> >> person to show up.
> >>
> >> It is the second Tuesday. It was 7pm. It was the room next door to the
> >> room we usually use.
> >>
> >> What happened?
> >>
> >> -- Steven
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> BLUG mailing list
> >> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> >> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
> >>
> >
> >--
> >Mark Krenz
> >Bloomington Linux Users Group
> >http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
> >_______________________________________________
> >BLUG mailing list
> >BLUG@linuxfan.com
> >http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Weldon Sams
> wsams@indiana.edu

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Re: [BLUG] Presentation idea [Was: Where is everybody?]

Hey Mark, I just had an idea. Since we're all puter-people, how hard would it be to set up a video conferencing session for a meeting or even to video a session and post it on you tube or something with plenty of bandwidth.

On 6/12/07, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:

  That's too bad.  There always seemed to be a different crowd during
the summer months than the rest of the year.  Makes sense.  Maybe those
people didn't get the word this year about the group.

  Actually, I was thinking lately that I'd like to do a presentation,
maybe next month, on my own personal desktop.  It may sound boring but I
wanted to share with everyone how I use my computer.  Not that I'm
specifically interesting, but it would be a good presentation for
picking up lots of tips and tricks.  I was thinking that I could get my
hands on two LCD projectors and show how I utilize two screens.  I think
I could do it in July or August.

Does this interest anyone?


On Tue, Jun 12, 2007 at 11:22:12PM GMT, Black,  Steven Wayne [blacks@indiana.edu] said the following:
> I left the meeting room (1C) after 15 minutes of waiting for the first
> person to show up.
>
> It is the second Tuesday. It was 7pm. It was the room next door to the
> room we usually use.
>
> What happened?
>
> -- Steven
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

--
Weldon Sams
wsams@indiana.edu

Re: [BLUG] Anyone expecting to play Armagetron?

Hey, I may make it back from the Bluegrass Festival to play BZ this Saturday.

By the way, I'd love to know how to auto rotate maps.

Also, do you know how to add bots to a game that's not in solo mode?

On 6/7/07, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:

  This Saturday we're scheduled to play Armagetron, a tron lightcycles
like game.  I'm wondering if any of you were expecting to play this.
The reason I'm asking is because I'm having trouble getting the
dedicated server working.  Appearently, it is buggy and it seems that
development has stopped for it.

  I was thinking instead we could play another round of bzflag instead.
I found out how to auto rotate through the maps.


--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

--
Weldon Sams
wsams@indiana.edu

Re: [BLUG] Presentation idea [Was: Where is everybody?]

Scott had posted yesterday that we didn't have a room reserved again
this month. So, despite there having been an alternate room number
listed, leading me to have thought that we probably did, I figured he
knew whereof he spoke, and that we weren't meeting tonight after all.

Plus, I ended up at work 'til about 8:00 p.m. Which would have made it
challenging for me to have made a 7:00 meeting...

In theory, I'll be able to make the July and August meetings, and
would be able to bring one projector...

Ana

On 6/12/07, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:
>
> That's too bad. There always seemed to be a different crowd during
> the summer months than the rest of the year. Makes sense. Maybe those
> people didn't get the word this year about the group.
>
> Actually, I was thinking lately that I'd like to do a presentation,
> maybe next month, on my own personal desktop. It may sound boring but I
> wanted to share with everyone how I use my computer. Not that I'm
> specifically interesting, but it would be a good presentation for
> picking up lots of tips and tricks. I was thinking that I could get my
> hands on two LCD projectors and show how I utilize two screens. I think
> I could do it in July or August.
>
> Does this interest anyone?
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 12, 2007 at 11:22:12PM GMT, Black, Steven Wayne [blacks@indiana.edu] said the following:
> > I left the meeting room (1C) after 15 minutes of waiting for the first
> > person to show up.
> >
> > It is the second Tuesday. It was 7pm. It was the room next door to the
> > room we usually use.
> >
> > What happened?
> >
> > -- Steven
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > BLUG mailing list
> > BLUG@linuxfan.com
> > http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
> >
>
> --
> Mark Krenz
> Bloomington Linux Users Group
> http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

[BLUG] Presentation idea [Was: Where is everybody?]

That's too bad. There always seemed to be a different crowd during
the summer months than the rest of the year. Makes sense. Maybe those
people didn't get the word this year about the group.

Actually, I was thinking lately that I'd like to do a presentation,
maybe next month, on my own personal desktop. It may sound boring but I
wanted to share with everyone how I use my computer. Not that I'm
specifically interesting, but it would be a good presentation for
picking up lots of tips and tricks. I was thinking that I could get my
hands on two LCD projectors and show how I utilize two screens. I think
I could do it in July or August.

Does this interest anyone?

On Tue, Jun 12, 2007 at 11:22:12PM GMT, Black, Steven Wayne [blacks@indiana.edu] said the following:
> I left the meeting room (1C) after 15 minutes of waiting for the first
> person to show up.
>
> It is the second Tuesday. It was 7pm. It was the room next door to the
> room we usually use.
>
> What happened?
>
> -- Steven
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

[BLUG] Where is everybody?

I left the meeting room (1C) after 15 minutes of waiting for the first
person to show up.

It is the second Tuesday. It was 7pm. It was the room next door to the
room we usually use.

What happened?

-- Steven

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Re: [BLUG] Gaming session tonight will be BZFlag

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

>
> If you need to use the close source fglrx driver, then IIRC, you will be
> unable to use Open GL, and unable to play BZFlag without serious lag and
> delay.

fglrx works fine for me w/ BZFLag and all manner of OpenGL apps
(xscreensaver opengl, rss-glx, quake, etc).

- -Rich

>
> I checked the information on BZFlag fairly recently when I thought of
> playing. Unfortunately, I don't have hardware Open GL in Linux either.
> (I have a chipset which requires the fglrx driver.)
>
> Cheers,
> Steven Black
>
> On Sat, 2007-06-09 at 21:37 -0400, Gillis, Chad wrote:
>> I stopped by but it's just as well that you guys weren't around since
>> my tank might have looked a bit dorky. I got a warning: Your lag is
>> too high (1125 ms). I've never used this computer for gaming before and
>> don't have any experience setting up video so it's optimized. I don't
>> think it's a hardware problem (128 MB ATI Mobility Radeon X1400, 1.8
>> GHz dual core). I'm using vesa so maybe I need to install the
>> proprietary driver fglrx instead? Or could the lag be caused by
>> something else (besides the internet connection which is fine)?
>>
>> As stated in the wiki though, installation was a breeze. Without
>> exaggeration it took about ten seconds.
>>
>>>> Mark Krenz wrote:
>>>>> I couldn't get Armagetron's dedicated server to work, so we're going
>>>>> to play BZFlag tonight instead.
>>>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BLUG mailing list
>> BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
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Re: [BLUG] Meeting

Honestly I don't attend because the time I have off I like to spend with my wife and kids.  I do like the mail list and web site though.  It has proven helpful in the past. 

On 6/11/07, Scott Blaydes <sblaydes@sbce.org> wrote:

Okay, we do not have the room reserved for a meeting this month, but
that is fine as we only had 2 people show up last month.  I figure that
if we want to look at changing the meeting time, day, or location now
would be a good time to do it.  Please let me know if you have any ideas
about the changes I listed.  Also, do we want to change up the format of
the meeting also?  Perhaps have a dinner meeting?  Or maybe one meeting
with a presentation on day of the month and a dinner meeting another day
of the month.  Or maybe alternate with a presentation one month and a
social meeting the next month.

I know that many members of the BLUG are working some long hours and
don't always have the time to attend meetings, but I would appreciate it
if you could let me know why you do not attend the meetings.  Just email
me off list so I can get a better idea of what I need to change to help
get meeting attendance back up.  I have spoken to a few companies and
individuals who have offered to do presentations for our meetings, but I
can't justify a person to drive a few hours for an audience of 2 people.
It is a chicken/egg problem.  Attendance would probably raise if we
have more diverse and interesting presentations, but we need to have a
decent attendance to get more diverse and interesting presentations.

Also, some of you know it, some of you don't, but I just got married
last Saturday.  I am hoping that I will now be able to spend more time
on BLUG stuff, such as updating the website.  If there is someone else
who would like to help with getting meetings planned, website stuff and
other BLUG stuff, let me know.

Thank you,
Scott Blaydes
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
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