Re: [BLUG] New OS

Hi,
Thanks much, in the middle of the dowloads right now.
Paul

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Warner" <markwarner1954@att.net>
To: "Bloomington LINUX Users Group" <blug@cs.indiana.edu>
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: [BLUG] New OS

>
>
> Paul Proctor wrote:
>> Hi,
>> Got at least three machines not on the router. A newer Dell an old Dell
>> 8100 and an old Compaq. My guess is you have to be more concerned about
>> hardware than in Windows.
>
> Not really. If you've got three machines to dedicate to this learning
> experience, then load 'em all up with three different distros and get to
> it.
>
>> I have heard rumors about things like monitor
>> fires. Is this true??
>
> Never heard of it. Total nonsense, anyway. How could an operating system
> cause monitor fires? Unless they're talking about refresh rates, but
> you'd have to really try hard and tweak the config files manually to
> cause any damage.
>
>> I live in Ellettsville so download speed with
>> Comcast is OK. Burning ISO's are not a problem either. What about
>> processor speed and memory mimium requirements? Is an AMD processor OK?
>
> AMD is all I use. Minimum requirements for a full GUI desktop
> environment will be around 1GHz with 512MB. You can get by with less if
> you have to.
>
>> What about HD preperation? Can I start with a FAT32 partition or NTFS?
>> How about no partition at all?
>
> Again, assuming you're going to dedicate the whole machine to Linux,
> just start the installer and tell it to take the whole disk. The
> installer with run the partitioner and take it from there.
>
>> Thanks for the links I will get Ubuntu ISO ASAP, check my homeowners
>> insurance and load it on one soon. Any preference of my available
>> machines?
>
> There are a lot of Ubuntu fans here, and it's a fine distro, but don't
> limit yourself to one.
>
> --
> Mark Warner
> SimplyMEPIS Linux v6.5
> Registered Linux User #415318
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

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Re: [BLUG] New OS

Paul Proctor wrote:
> Hi,
> Got at least three machines not on the router. A newer Dell an old Dell
> 8100 and an old Compaq. My guess is you have to be more concerned about
> hardware than in Windows.

Not really. If you've got three machines to dedicate to this learning
experience, then load 'em all up with three different distros and get to it.

> I have heard rumors about things like monitor
> fires. Is this true??

Never heard of it. Total nonsense, anyway. How could an operating system
cause monitor fires? Unless they're talking about refresh rates, but
you'd have to really try hard and tweak the config files manually to
cause any damage.

> I live in Ellettsville so download speed with
> Comcast is OK. Burning ISO's are not a problem either. What about
> processor speed and memory mimium requirements? Is an AMD processor OK?

AMD is all I use. Minimum requirements for a full GUI desktop
environment will be around 1GHz with 512MB. You can get by with less if
you have to.

> What about HD preperation? Can I start with a FAT32 partition or NTFS?
> How about no partition at all?

Again, assuming you're going to dedicate the whole machine to Linux,
just start the installer and tell it to take the whole disk. The
installer with run the partitioner and take it from there.

> Thanks for the links I will get Ubuntu ISO ASAP, check my homeowners
> insurance and load it on one soon. Any preference of my available machines?

There are a lot of Ubuntu fans here, and it's a fine distro, but don't
limit yourself to one.

--
Mark Warner
SimplyMEPIS Linux v6.5
Registered Linux User #415318

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Re: [BLUG] New OS

Hi,
Got at least three machines not on the router. A newer Dell an old Dell 8100
and an old Compaq. My guess is you have to be more concerned about hardware
than in Windows. I have heard rumors about things like monitor fires. Is
this true?? I live in Ellettsville so download speed with Comcast is OK.
Burning ISO's are not a problem either. What about processor speed and
memory mimium requirements? Is an AMD processor OK? What about HD
preperation? Can I start with a FAT32 partition or NTFS? How about no
partition at all?
Thanks for the links I will get Ubuntu ISO ASAP, check my homeowners
insurance and load it on one soon. Any preference of my available machines?
Thanx,
Paul

----- Original Message -----
From: "Simón Ruiz" <simon.a.ruiz@gmail.com>
To: "Bloomington LINUX Users Group" <blug@cs.indiana.edu>
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: [BLUG] New OS

> Paul,
>
> Well, so an install would be your first step.
>
> If your hobby is PC building I'm guessing that, like me, you've got
> more than one computer laying around, huh? Pick one to play with and
> install some flavor of Linux on it.
>
> Now, I'm a little biased since I'm pretty active in Ubuntu's Indiana
> Local Community (LoCo), but I think Ubuntu is a great starting place.
>
> Are you comfortable downloading and burning CD-ROM .iso images? If so,
> head on over to <http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download>. If you're
> in Bloomington, you'll most likely get the fastest possible download
> from the "ftp.ussg.iu.edu" option.
>
> I think, like me, that you'll find that installing Ubuntu is a LOT
> easier and faster than installing XP. Not to mention, it comes
> pre-loaded with a lot of the software you'd end up having to install
> yourself after a Windows install.
>
> Plus, you don't need to worry about setting up virus scanners, malware
> removers, or a firewall except in special circumstances (e.g., we have
> a virus checker running on our file server and mail server at work not
> so the servers are protected from virii, but so our users running
> Windows are).
>
> A note on hardware, especially since you build your own:
> Unfortunately, most hardware manufacturers only worry about making
> sure their hardware runs on Windows and the open source community is
> left to their own devices as far as getting it to run on any other OS.
>
> This means that some of the latest hardware may take a bit of extra
> work to get running, or is functionally limited, under Linux. So most
> of us who build systems with the intent of installing Linux on them
> need to do the research to know what is and isn't supported yet.
> (Nothing is more irritating that buying a piece of hardware, plugging
> it in, and finding out that you aren't getting full functionality out
> of it right now.)
>
> On the other hand, for 95% of the hardware out there you won't need to
> go find drivers for it, since it'll be supported right out of the box.
> On Ubuntu, there's a "restricted drivers manager" (under System ->
> Administration -> Hardware Drivers) that will go out and automatically
> download and set up the extra drivers that are unable to be included
> automatically due to intellectual property concerns, covering another
> 4% of the possibilities.
>
> It's in that 1% of cases (or more, if you like buying on the cutting
> edge) that this can be a real pain.
>
> (NOTE, the percentages here are vague, biased, hand-wavy estimates
> based on personal experience, not real statistics.)
>
> So jump in the pool, swim around a bit, and when in doubt, ask questions.
>
> Take care!
>
> Simón
>
> On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 1:16 PM, Paul Proctor <proctor710@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>> Hi Simon,
>> I am comfortable with Windows but a good bit of my income and my hobby is
>> from building PC's. I would like to use an OS that is more open.
>> I understand something new would be a chalange, no problem. I just need
>> some
>> material to experiment with.
>> Thanks,
>> Paul
>
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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10:10 AM

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Re: [BLUG] New OS

in terms of installs, wubi is an incredible installer.  I don't think that has anything to do with what is being discussed here, but I figgered I'd mention it.
http://wubi-installer.org/
Matt

Re: [BLUG] New OS

Mark,

See if you can install hplip (HP Linux Imaging and Printing -- Print,
Scan and Fax Drivers for Linux) package in Ubuntu. If not, visit

http://hplip.sourceforge.net/

Good luck,
Shing-Shong

>
> That's been my experience in *most* cases, but....
>
> Most recently, I set up a box for a "charity case" (friend of wife)
> with PCLinuxOS. Wife went out and bought a new printer (HP, at my
> insistence) to go with it. Came back with an All in One
> print/copy/scan gizmo. Printing set up automagically, but the
> copy/scan function would *not* work for nuthin'.
>

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Re: [BLUG] New OS

Dave Cooley wrote:
> Agreed. I'm biased as well, but Ubuntu would be a great place to
> start. The other day, I had to set up a Laserjet 4200 via Parallel port
> (it's a long, dumb story). I hooked the cable up to a machine running
> Ubuntu, turned the printer on, and nothing happened. I was like "well,
> what the heck do I need to do now?". I wondered if maybe it would see
> it if I rebooted. Just for kicks, I started up Firefox and clicked
> "print". Boom, Ubuntu already knew the printer was there and had
> already set it up for me with the proper driver; no reboot, no driver
> selection, I DID NOTHING. I was pleased.

Yup, that's been my experience *most* of the time. Usually with older
stuff. It's the latest and greatest that can trip you up.

> Besides being fairly simple (if you want it to be), I think Ubuntu's
> greatest strength is its user community. Check out
> http://ubuntuforums.org and you'll meet one of the most helpful, least
> agitated groups of Linux users you'll find for any flavor of Linux.

What I appreciate about the Ubuntu community is its size -- most
everything you might want to learn about has been posted there
somewhere. Even though I'm not a daily Ubuntu user, the knowledge
contained in the Ubuntu forums and documentation can almost always be
applied to other Debian based distros -- like MEPIS -- that I *do* use.

--
Mark Warner
SimplyMEPIS Linux v6.5
Registered Linux User #415318

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Re: [BLUG] New OS

On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 3:28 PM, Mark Warner <markwarner1954@att.net> wrote:
> Simón Ruiz wrote:
>> In Ubuntu I plug the printer in and BOOM! it's automagically set up
>> for me. WooHoo!
>
> That's been my experience in *most* cases, but....
>
> Most recently, I set up a box for a "charity case" (friend of wife) with
> PCLinuxOS. Wife went out and bought a new printer (HP, at my insistence) to
> go with it. Came back with an All in One print/copy/scan gizmo. Printing set
> up automagically, but the copy/scan function would *not* work for nuthin'.

Yowch.

Yeah, I haven't tried any MFCs in Linux, myself.

They're a pain even under Windows, so I avoid them.

There's got to be SOMEONE out there who's had SOME success though...

Here's a lead: <https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HpAllInOne>

I sure the hplip package can be found on any distro.

> --
> Mark Warner
> SimplyMEPIS Linux v6.5
> Registered Linux User #415318

Cheers!

Simón

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Re: [BLUG] New OS

Simón Ruiz wrote:
> Mark Warner wrote:
>>
>> And be prepared to get a call when the printer
>> they buy at Staples doesn't work automagically.
>
> Actually, IMHO, printing under Ubuntu is MUCH easier than printing
> under Windows.
>
> In Ubuntu I plug the printer in and BOOM! it's automagically set up
> for me. WooHoo!

That's been my experience in *most* cases, but....

Most recently, I set up a box for a "charity case" (friend of wife) with
PCLinuxOS. Wife went out and bought a new printer (HP, at my insistence)
to go with it. Came back with an All in One print/copy/scan gizmo.
Printing set up automagically, but the copy/scan function would *not*
work for nuthin'.

--
Mark Warner
SimplyMEPIS Linux v6.5
Registered Linux User #415318

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Re: [BLUG] New OS

Agreed.  I'm biased as well, but Ubuntu would be a great place to start.  The other day, I had to set up a Laserjet 4200 via Parallel port (it's a long, dumb story).  I hooked the cable up to a machine running Ubuntu, turned the printer on, and nothing happened.  I was like "well, what the heck do I need to do now?".  I wondered if maybe it would see it if I rebooted.  Just for kicks, I started up Firefox and clicked "print".  Boom, Ubuntu already knew the printer was there and had already set it up for me with the proper driver; no reboot, no driver selection, I DID NOTHING.  I was pleased.

Besides being fairly simple (if you want it to be), I think Ubuntu's greatest strength is its user community.   Check out  http://ubuntuforums.org  and you'll meet one of the most helpful, least agitated groups of Linux users you'll find for any flavor of Linux.

Dave Cooley dcooley@kiva.net

Simón Ruiz wrote:

On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 2:19 PM, Mark Warner <markwarner1954@att.net> wrote:   

The best candidates for desktop Linux are total neophytes that have no Windows knowledge or preconceived notions about how computers (Windows) should operate.     

 I agree.    

And be prepared to get a call when the printer they buy at Staples doesn't work automagically.     

 Actually, IMHO, printing under Ubuntu is MUCH easier than printing under Windows.  In Ubuntu I plug the printer in and BOOM! it's automagically set up for me. WooHoo!  In Windows, I have to pop in the CD and run through the "Yes", "Yes", "Yes" prompts which, if you don't pay attention, install all kinds of extra crud on your computer. Then you have to re-boot.  And woe unto you if you decided to plug the printer in before the step in the installation CD dialog that tells you to...  Simón  _______________________________________________ BLUG mailing list BLUG@linuxfan.com http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug   

Re: [BLUG] New OS

On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 2:19 PM, Mark Warner <markwarner1954@att.net> wrote:
> The best candidates for desktop Linux are total neophytes
> that have no Windows knowledge or preconceived notions about how computers
> (Windows) should operate.

I agree.

> And be prepared to get a call when the printer
> they buy at Staples doesn't work automagically.

Actually, IMHO, printing under Ubuntu is MUCH easier than printing
under Windows.

In Ubuntu I plug the printer in and BOOM! it's automagically set up
for me. WooHoo!

In Windows, I have to pop in the CD and run through the "Yes", "Yes",
"Yes" prompts which, if you don't pay attention, install all kinds of
extra crud on your computer. Then you have to re-boot.

And woe unto you if you decided to plug the printer in before the step
in the installation CD dialog that tells you to...

Simón

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BLUG mailing list
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Re: [BLUG] New OS

Paul Proctor wrote:
> Hi Simon,
> I am comfortable with Windows but a good bit of my income and my hobby
> is from building PC's. I would like to use an OS that is more open.
> I understand something new would be a chalange, no problem. I just need
> some material to experiment with.

If you're building for others, then you're going to have to understand
that the end user doesn't give a wit about "freedom" and "openness" and
what have you. They want to click on an icon, open the file or program,
and do what they want to do. The best candidates for desktop Linux are
total neophytes that have no Windows knowledge or preconceived notions
about how computers (Windows) should operate. And be prepared to get a
call when the printer they buy at Staples doesn't work automagically.

That being said, I would start by experimenting with Live CDs. Most
desktop Linux distros nowadays come as a bootable CD that loads to
memory and allows you to play around. My personal preferences are MEPIS,
PCLinuxOS, and Ubuntu. The first two use the KDE desktop environment,
which is somewhat similar to Windows; Ubuntu uses Gnome, which is
reminiscent of the Mac desktop.

I also personally prefer distros based on Debian. MEPIS and Ubuntu meet
that preference. And while PCLinuxOS is Mandriva based, it uses the
apt/Synaptic package manager from Debian, which (imo) is far superior
than any of the other mainstream offerings.

--
Mark Warner
SimplyMEPIS Linux v6.5
Registered Linux User #415318

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BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
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Re: [BLUG] New OS

Paul,

Well, so an install would be your first step.

If your hobby is PC building I'm guessing that, like me, you've got
more than one computer laying around, huh? Pick one to play with and
install some flavor of Linux on it.

Now, I'm a little biased since I'm pretty active in Ubuntu's Indiana
Local Community (LoCo), but I think Ubuntu is a great starting place.

Are you comfortable downloading and burning CD-ROM .iso images? If so,
head on over to <http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download>. If you're
in Bloomington, you'll most likely get the fastest possible download
from the "ftp.ussg.iu.edu" option.

I think, like me, that you'll find that installing Ubuntu is a LOT
easier and faster than installing XP. Not to mention, it comes
pre-loaded with a lot of the software you'd end up having to install
yourself after a Windows install.

Plus, you don't need to worry about setting up virus scanners, malware
removers, or a firewall except in special circumstances (e.g., we have
a virus checker running on our file server and mail server at work not
so the servers are protected from virii, but so our users running
Windows are).

A note on hardware, especially since you build your own:
Unfortunately, most hardware manufacturers only worry about making
sure their hardware runs on Windows and the open source community is
left to their own devices as far as getting it to run on any other OS.

This means that some of the latest hardware may take a bit of extra
work to get running, or is functionally limited, under Linux. So most
of us who build systems with the intent of installing Linux on them
need to do the research to know what is and isn't supported yet.
(Nothing is more irritating that buying a piece of hardware, plugging
it in, and finding out that you aren't getting full functionality out
of it right now.)

On the other hand, for 95% of the hardware out there you won't need to
go find drivers for it, since it'll be supported right out of the box.
On Ubuntu, there's a "restricted drivers manager" (under System ->
Administration -> Hardware Drivers) that will go out and automatically
download and set up the extra drivers that are unable to be included
automatically due to intellectual property concerns, covering another
4% of the possibilities.

It's in that 1% of cases (or more, if you like buying on the cutting
edge) that this can be a real pain.

(NOTE, the percentages here are vague, biased, hand-wavy estimates
based on personal experience, not real statistics.)

So jump in the pool, swim around a bit, and when in doubt, ask questions.

Take care!

Simón

On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 1:16 PM, Paul Proctor <proctor710@comcast.net> wrote:
> Hi Simon,
> I am comfortable with Windows but a good bit of my income and my hobby is
> from building PC's. I would like to use an OS that is more open.
> I understand something new would be a chalange, no problem. I just need some
> material to experiment with.
> Thanks,
> Paul

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
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[BLUG] New OS

Hi Simon,

I am comfortable with Windows but a good bit of my income and my hobby is from building PC's. I would like to use an OS that is more open.

I understand something new would be a chalange, no problem. I just need some material to experiment with.

Thanks,

Paul 

 

 

 

Re: [BLUG] Happy Software Freedom Day!

On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 8:10 AM, Paul Proctor <proctor710@comcast.net> wrote:
> Hi,
> You guys don't know me but I am sorta desperate. I know nothing about LINUX.
> I have been using and building PC's since the days of DOS.
> I need a new OS and lots of advice on LINUX. My first step should probably
> be to attend a meeting I guess. Any help would be much apreciated!

Welcome, Paul,

If you've been working with PC's since the days of DOS, and if you're
anything like me, you'll find Linux to be a breath of fresh air.

I know as I began to learn my way around Linux, it was like all of the
good things that have changed in computing since the days of DOS
without all the crud.

Things that need to be complex are, of course, complex (who can we
kid? computers are complex.), and anything that can be simple is. It's
refreshing.

Not to mention, I still have an affinity for the command-line, so
while there was a slight learning curve going from "dir" to "ls", from
"ren" to "mv", etc. learning my way around the bash shell was like
going from a club to a light saber.

Out of curiosity, what is it that brought you to the decision that you
need a new OS?

> Thanx,
> Paul Proctor

Simón

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Re: [BLUG] Happy Software Freedom Day!

Hi,
You guys don't know me but I am sorta desperate. I know nothing about LINUX.
I have been using and building PC's since the days of DOS.
I need a new OS and lots of advice on LINUX. My first step should probably
be to attend a meeting I guess. Any help would be much apreciated!

Thanx,
Paul Proctor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Simón Ruiz" <simon.a.ruiz@gmail.com>
To: "Bloomington LINUX Users Group" <blug@cs.indiana.edu>
Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: [BLUG] Happy Software Freedom Day!

> Indeed!
>
> http://www.fsf.org/news/freedom-fry
>
> On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:
>>
>> And next Saturday is the 25th anniversary of free software (and my
>> daughter's birthday). Richard Stallman announced his intentions to make
>> a free operating system and the GNU project on September 27th, 1983.
>>
>> http://ostatic.com/173195-blog/gnu-kicks-off-25th-anniversary-celebration
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 01:46:23PM GMT, Simón Ruiz
>> [simon.a.ruiz@gmail.com] said the following:
>>> Today, Saturday September 20th, 2008 is Software Freedom Day.
>>>
>>> May we all have a great one!
>>>
>>> Simón
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BLUG mailing list
>>> BLUG@linuxfan.com
>>> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Mark Krenz
>> Bloomington Linux Users Group
>> http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BLUG mailing list
>> BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

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