Re: [BLUG] Android - competition for iPhone?

Well, I agree with the basic gist of what you are saying here.. It
seems a little futile to debate which turds would be least smelliest,
because the bottom line is that turds smell :)

I also recognize whole heartedly the overall frustration of having
several companies competing for ownership of your data, particularly
when so many consumers seem blissfully ignorant and complacent about
this stuff. Things have gotten so bad in the tech industry I often
wonder when or if there will be some sort of large scale consumer
revolt. At the top of my list are cell-phone contracts... Doesn't it
seem odd to some that we need to sign a legal document pledging
loyalty to a company we are paying money to for a product that will be
consumed?

Another rant for another thread though (I know my argument isn't at
all focused either), sorry to derail :)

On Nov 13, 2007, at 4:02 PM, Simón Ruiz wrote:

> Oh, I agree with the opinion that there are benefits of having
> commercial software choices (though I think the benefits might be
> better realized if the commercial choices competed on quality, rather
> than existing market dominance) on the grounds that free market
> competition is beneficial to consumers. It's the same reason I think
> forking within the free software community can be healthy.
>
> I simply don't agree that it'd be any better with Apple monopolizing
> an industry over Microsoft; it's merely a choice between expensive,
> working, shiny handcuffs and cheap, good-enough, ugly handcuffs, as
> far as I can tell...
>
> On Nov 13, 2007 3:36 PM, Joe Auty <joe@netmusician.org> wrote:
>> I think there is room for commercial software and proprietaryness.
>> I'm
>> a much bigger fan and advocate of open protocols and formats than I
>> am
>> of all OSS. I don't think that all software should be free, and in
>> fact think that there are often several benefits of having commercial
>> software choices available.
>>
>> Just my two cents...
> _______________________________________________
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> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

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RE: [BLUG] Android - competition for iPhone?

Simón, I have question about Rockbox. Does that allow you to add music flash style to an iPod. I've resorted to using my BlackBerry. :) Although, I kind of like it better for music -- I just wish the battery lasted longer.

Weldon

-----Original Message-----
From: blug-admin@cs.indiana.edu [mailto:blug-admin@cs.indiana.edu] On Behalf Of Simón Ruiz
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 14:34
To: blug@cs.indiana.edu
Subject: Re: [BLUG] Android - competition for iPhone?

Not sure about that myself.

"You hack us, we hack you"?

I can't think of any way that Apple is better than Microsoft, other
than the fact that they make better performing, better designed
products. Since this includes their DRM (however much Jobs claims to
abhor it, right?), it ends up no longer being a positive IMO.

The only positive I can think of is that when their products finally
get hacked so we DO have some freedom to use them as we wish (which
pretty much means it's several generations old), we'll have that nicer
hardware to work with.

I, myself, have an iPod Nano (first generation) running Rockbox. I
wouldn't get a newest generation iPod (were money not an issue
anyways), simply because I'd be stuck with Apple's interface, and
locked into their way of doing things, or I'd have to wait until
someone hacked it so it'd would finally work with me.

Just a thought.

Simón

On 11/13/07, Joe Auty <joe@netmusician.org> wrote:
> This isn't to say that I *want* Apple to dominate this industry, but
> then again... better Apple than Microsoft :)

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Re: [BLUG] OLPC - anyone from Bloomington participating?

On 12/11/2007, ¥ dosman ¥ <dosman33@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello BLUG members,
>
> I am strongly considering the "Give One Get One" program where you purchase
> two XO's; one is given to a child in a developing nation and the other you
> get to keep. Since it is based on Fedora 7 I figured I could get away with
> bringing this up here, is anyone else looking at this? It would be nice to
> have a local group of folks with them so the wi-mesh and group applications
> could be tested. Also I am interested in seeing what I can contribute to the
> platform if anything.
>
I ordered one earlier today -- I'm unconvinced of the OLPC as a tool
to teach programming to kids, but as a collaborative tool it has
promise. And, personally, as an uber-cool legacy-free Linux laptop!

The bundled T-mobile hotspot plan is a nice bonus too.

--
Michel

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Re: [BLUG] Android - competition for iPhone?

Oh, I agree with the opinion that there are benefits of having
commercial software choices (though I think the benefits might be
better realized if the commercial choices competed on quality, rather
than existing market dominance) on the grounds that free market
competition is beneficial to consumers. It's the same reason I think
forking within the free software community can be healthy.

I simply don't agree that it'd be any better with Apple monopolizing
an industry over Microsoft; it's merely a choice between expensive,
working, shiny handcuffs and cheap, good-enough, ugly handcuffs, as
far as I can tell...

On Nov 13, 2007 3:36 PM, Joe Auty <joe@netmusician.org> wrote:
> I think there is room for commercial software and proprietaryness. I'm
> a much bigger fan and advocate of open protocols and formats than I am
> of all OSS. I don't think that all software should be free, and in
> fact think that there are often several benefits of having commercial
> software choices available.
>
> Just my two cents...
_______________________________________________
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BLUG@linuxfan.com
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Re: [BLUG] Android - competition for iPhone?

I'd say that Apple is a little better overall in that they use many
open Unix protocols rather than reinventing the wheel. While many of
their apps use proprietary formats, many (like their mailbox format in
OS X Mail) are still accessible via Unix tools for troubleshooting and
hacking. That is, they don't go out of their way to make it impossible
to hack their stuff, they just don't bother catering to the hacker
crowd. This is a double-edged sword... On one hand, their products
have great focus and this is a great part of their success. On the
other hand, it's a minus for me personally, often times...

As far as the DRM thing, I don't know exactly what went on there. I
see that Apple is now removing DRM from many of their iTunes tracks
and have phased out iTunes Plus, making non-DRM stuff available at no
additional charge. It seems feasible to me that the labels could have
stipulated that Apple utilize DRM in the infancy of the digital
download store, and that this was the only way their product would be
available, but then when Amazon comes along and make their entire
library available w/o DRM, one has to scratch their head...

I like hacking stuff as much as the next guy, but there are times when
I simply don't want to put in the time or effort to do so and am happy
with the little comfortable bubble Apple has provided me. For
instance, I don't think I'll ever hack into my 3G iPod. On the other
hand, I run MythTV rather than paying for my own PVR, so I guess it's
just a matter of what seems like it is worth my time to me at that
moment.

I think there is room for commercial software and proprietaryness. I'm
a much bigger fan and advocate of open protocols and formats than I am
of all OSS. I don't think that all software should be free, and in
fact think that there are often several benefits of having commercial
software choices available.

Just my two cents...

On Nov 13, 2007, at 2:33 PM, Simón Ruiz wrote:

> Not sure about that myself.
>
> "You hack us, we hack you"?
>
> I can't think of any way that Apple is better than Microsoft, other
> than the fact that they make better performing, better designed
> products. Since this includes their DRM (however much Jobs claims to
> abhor it, right?), it ends up no longer being a positive IMO.
>
> The only positive I can think of is that when their products finally
> get hacked so we DO have some freedom to use them as we wish (which
> pretty much means it's several generations old), we'll have that nicer
> hardware to work with.
>
> I, myself, have an iPod Nano (first generation) running Rockbox. I
> wouldn't get a newest generation iPod (were money not an issue
> anyways), simply because I'd be stuck with Apple's interface, and
> locked into their way of doing things, or I'd have to wait until
> someone hacked it so it'd would finally work with me.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Simón
>
> On 11/13/07, Joe Auty <joe@netmusician.org> wrote:
>> This isn't to say that I *want* Apple to dominate this industry, but
>> then again... better Apple than Microsoft :)
>
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

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BLUG@linuxfan.com
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Re: [BLUG] Android - competition for iPhone?

Not sure about that myself.

"You hack us, we hack you"?

I can't think of any way that Apple is better than Microsoft, other
than the fact that they make better performing, better designed
products. Since this includes their DRM (however much Jobs claims to
abhor it, right?), it ends up no longer being a positive IMO.

The only positive I can think of is that when their products finally
get hacked so we DO have some freedom to use them as we wish (which
pretty much means it's several generations old), we'll have that nicer
hardware to work with.

I, myself, have an iPod Nano (first generation) running Rockbox. I
wouldn't get a newest generation iPod (were money not an issue
anyways), simply because I'd be stuck with Apple's interface, and
locked into their way of doing things, or I'd have to wait until
someone hacked it so it'd would finally work with me.

Just a thought.

Simón

On 11/13/07, Joe Auty <joe@netmusician.org> wrote:
> This isn't to say that I *want* Apple to dominate this industry, but
> then again... better Apple than Microsoft :)

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Re: [BLUG] Android - competition for iPhone?

Apple also claims that they will have a full iPhone SDK in place for
developers by Feb. 2008. I'm interested in knowing whether this will
be complete and entirely open and transparent to developers, or
whether it will be Apple's version of "open", which sometimes seems to
carry a different definition. I'm also interested in seeing whether
Apple will license the iPhone OS (which is a stripped down version of
OS X) to other vendors, and what these relationships and caveats will
be like.

No matter what you think of Apple (and believe me, I have a love/hate
relationship with them myself), the iPhone is damn cool. If Apple
plays their cards right, they could really dominate the smartphone
industry like they dominate the mp3 player industry. Apple sometimes
does some weird things on their backends, sometimes stuff that doesn't
perform well, is oddly designed, etc., but they *do* know how to make
a good client interface, which is going to be what makes or breaks the
purchasing decisions for Joe Sixpack.

This isn't to say that I *want* Apple to dominate this industry, but
then again... better Apple than Microsoft :)

On Nov 13, 2007, at 11:07 AM, Steven Black wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 12, 2007 at 08:10:16PM -0800, Mark Kruzan wrote:
>> From the website: "The Android platform is a software stack for
>> mobile devices
>> including an operating system, middleware and key applications.
>> Developers can
>> create applications for the platform using the Android SDK.
>> Applications are
>> written using the Java programming language and run on Dalvik, a
>> custom virtual
>> machine designed for embedded use which runs on top of a Linux
>> kernel."
>
> Personally, my gut turns when I think of Java. I don't know if I could
> live with myself using a Java-based phone. Not to mention they
> appear to
> have turned Java in to a write-here-run-here language. Custom
> libraries
> on top of a custom VM?
>
> I suppose they expect you to need to rewrite your entire user-
> interface
> if you want to re-use any libraries between a phone and light-weight
> desktop application. This really sounds like a giant leap backwards,
> powered by Google, so it may catch on.
>
> I'm much more interested in OpenMoko. Their entire design is
> centered on
> standard libraries so the only requirements that applications have is
> that they are limited by the screen size. If you have a small light-
> weight
> desktop application, then it may just compile cleanly for OpenMoko.
>
> Cheers,
> Steven Black
>
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

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Re: [BLUG] Android - competition for iPhone?

On Mon, Nov 12, 2007 at 08:10:16PM -0800, Mark Kruzan wrote:
> From the website: "The Android platform is a software stack for mobile devices
> including an operating system, middleware and key applications. Developers can
> create applications for the platform using the Android SDK. Applications are
> written using the Java programming language and run on Dalvik, a custom virtual
> machine designed for embedded use which runs on top of a Linux kernel."

Personally, my gut turns when I think of Java. I don't know if I could
live with myself using a Java-based phone. Not to mention they appear to
have turned Java in to a write-here-run-here language. Custom libraries
on top of a custom VM?

I suppose they expect you to need to rewrite your entire user-interface
if you want to re-use any libraries between a phone and light-weight
desktop application. This really sounds like a giant leap backwards,
powered by Google, so it may catch on.

I'm much more interested in OpenMoko. Their entire design is centered on
standard libraries so the only requirements that applications have is
that they are limited by the screen size. If you have a small light-weight
desktop application, then it may just compile cleanly for OpenMoko.

Cheers,
Steven Black

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