Thursday, July 31, 2008

Re: [BLUG] LiMo Phones, Plans

I actually was salivating for all of 2007 waiting for the OpenMoko phone's consumer edition, but stopped visiting their website over time.  I see now the consumer version has been released - we might have a winner!  Any input on anything pertaining to cell phones would be welcome to this n00b.  I'm going to start checking into plans as well, and would welcome responses to that also.  (There's already been some good advice in this thread.)  My own values make me very reluctant to go with AT&T because of their complicity (and subsequent lobbying for protection from lawsuits) in domestic spying, but I'm guessing there's no such thing as a shiny, innocent telcom co.
Anyway - does anyone have an OpenMoko phone?  What do you think of it?
Matt

Re: [BLUG] LiMo Phones, Plans

Sorry, I kinda hijacked the thread. The n800 and n810 do run Linux, but
are not phones. They have Bluetooth capability, as do most cell phones.
I intended to use that pairing for the internet access.

One of my friends uses a Blackberry to ssh home to check various things,
but I know it doesn't run Linux itself. It does have a very tiny
keyboard, which would be easier to type on than a regular keypad. Those
tiny keyboards are still hell to type on.

I have no experience with loading Linux or other third-party firmware
onto mobile phones, and I know of only a few very fancy phones that use
Linux out of the box. The FreeRunner, for example (GreenPhone is no
longer made). OpenMoko (http://www.openmoko.com/) and Qtopia
(http://www.qtopia.net/modules/devices/) present a decent mobile Linux
stack. To be honest, I think any phone with a usable keyboard and a
decent ssh client should be enough. I'm not that eager to run a server
from my phone.

Richard Knepper wrote:
> What, no openmoko?
>
> Matt Zink wrote:
> | Thanks for the clarification - shows you how little I know about cell
> | phones in general, let alone LiMo phones.
> |
> | On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 3:52 PM, Michael Schultheiss
> | <schultmc@cinlug.org <mailto:schultmc@cinlug.org>> wrote:
> |
> | Matt Zink wrote:
> | > And these are LiMo based phones, right?
> |
> | No, the N800 and N801 are internet tablets. They lake phone
> | capabilities afaik.
> | _______________________________________________
> | BLUG mailing list
> | BLUG@linuxfan.com <mailto:BLUG@linuxfan.com>
> | http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
> |
> |
> |
> | ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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Re: [BLUG] LiMo Phones, Plans

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

What, no openmoko?

Matt Zink wrote:
| Thanks for the clarification - shows you how little I know about cell
| phones in general, let alone LiMo phones.
|
| On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 3:52 PM, Michael Schultheiss
| <schultmc@cinlug.org <mailto:schultmc@cinlug.org>> wrote:
|
| Matt Zink wrote:
| > And these are LiMo based phones, right?
|
| No, the N800 and N801 are internet tablets. They lake phone
| capabilities afaik.
| _______________________________________________
| BLUG mailing list
| BLUG@linuxfan.com <mailto:BLUG@linuxfan.com>
| http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
|
|
|
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| _______________________________________________
| BLUG mailing list
| BLUG@linuxfan.com
| http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

- --
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Knepper rknepper@indiana.edu
Research Technologies Core Services 812.855.9574

"You deserve free software."
PGP Public Key:
http://php.indiana.edu/~rknepper/rknepper_pubkey.asc
- ------------------------------------------------------------
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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ARLoFiVsgNIL0pClT3sQZhI=
=aUpb
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Re: [BLUG] LiMo Phones, Plans

Thanks for the clarification - shows you how little I know about cell phones in general, let alone LiMo phones.

On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 3:52 PM, Michael Schultheiss <schultmc@cinlug.org> wrote:
Matt Zink wrote:
>    And these are LiMo based phones, right?

No, the N800 and N801 are internet tablets.  They lake phone
capabilities afaik.
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Re: [BLUG] LiMo Phones, Plans

Matt Zink wrote:
> And these are LiMo based phones, right?

No, the N800 and N801 are internet tablets. They lake phone
capabilities afaik.
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Re: [BLUG] LiMo Phones, Plans

And these are LiMo based phones, right?

On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 3:14 PM, Simón Ruiz <simon.a.ruiz@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 2:10 PM, Barry Schatz <sorbetninja@gmail.com> wrote:
I use Verizon, and have found the coverage weak in some places, but I rarely have no signal at all. I have not tried their data plan, so I don't know how good they would be for your  needs. My girlfriend has a data plan with AT&T, and she finds it good enough to regularly use Opera on her phone.

I plan to get a Nokia n810, and use the internet through my phone via bluetooth. I'm not willing to use a Blackberry form-factor keyboard with ssh. Also, the n810 is so darned cool!

If you don't need the hardware thumbboard or the onboard GPS, the n800 is quite a bit cheaper and virtually identical other than those two things.

I just need to get a charger for mine, since without a charger it's pretty much just a pretty sleek paperweight.

Simón

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Re: [BLUG] LiMo Phones, Plans

How usable is the onscreen keyboard for the 800? Is it good enough to be able to occasionally ssh
into a server without going insane? I'm not talking about completely working remotely via either
tablet, I'm thinking more along the lines of checking on running jobs and using pine. I've been
mulling over getting one or the other and the hardware keyboard seems really appealing. Aside from
that I prefer the 2 memory slots and FM radio that the N800 has.

Josh

Simón Ruiz wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 2:10 PM, Barry Schatz <sorbetninja@gmail.com
> <mailto:sorbetninja@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I use Verizon, and have found the coverage weak in some places, but
> I rarely have no signal at all. I have not tried their data plan, so
> I don't know how good they would be for your needs. My girlfriend
> has a data plan with AT&T, and she finds it good enough to regularly
> use Opera on her phone.
>
> I plan to get a Nokia n810, and use the internet through my phone
> via bluetooth. I'm not willing to use a Blackberry form-factor
> keyboard with ssh. Also, the n810 is so darned cool!
>
>
> If you don't need the hardware thumbboard or the onboard GPS, the n800
> is quite a bit cheaper and virtually identical other than those two things.
>
> I just need to get a charger for mine, since without a charger it's
> pretty much just a pretty sleek paperweight.
>
> Simón
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
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Re: [BLUG] LiMo Phones, Plans

On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 2:10 PM, Barry Schatz <sorbetninja@gmail.com> wrote:
I use Verizon, and have found the coverage weak in some places, but I rarely have no signal at all. I have not tried their data plan, so I don't know how good they would be for your  needs. My girlfriend has a data plan with AT&T, and she finds it good enough to regularly use Opera on her phone.

I plan to get a Nokia n810, and use the internet through my phone via bluetooth. I'm not willing to use a Blackberry form-factor keyboard with ssh. Also, the n810 is so darned cool!

If you don't need the hardware thumbboard or the onboard GPS, the n800 is quite a bit cheaper and virtually identical other than those two things.

I just need to get a charger for mine, since without a charger it's pretty much just a pretty sleek paperweight.

Simón

Re: [BLUG] LiMo Phones, Plans

I use Verizon, and have found the coverage weak in some places, but I
rarely have no signal at all. I have not tried their data plan, so I
don't know how good they would be for your needs. My girlfriend has a
data plan with AT&T, and she finds it good enough to regularly use Opera
on her phone.

I plan to get a Nokia n810, and use the internet through my phone via
bluetooth. I'm not willing to use a Blackberry form-factor keyboard with
ssh. Also, the n810 is so darned cool!

Steven Black wrote:
> I know that Ubuntu has a platform for mobile devices, but I've not
> heard of anyone shipping with them. I like Ubuntu in general, so I'm
> interested in this.
>
> I've been using a Palm Treo for some time. It, however, doesn't really
> fit my needs well. What I really need is a good SSH client. (I have a
> client for the Treo that loudly proclaims how insecure it probably is.)
>
> I, too, am interested in a decent Linux based phone, preferably with
> Sprint as a carrier as I regularly go somewhere without coverage for
> anyone else. (Anyone else that goes there gets zero bars. If you have
> Sprint, you have full bars.)
>
> I currently have an AT&T plan. I can tell you without a doubt that the
> coverage is spotty in Bloomington, and some of the surrounding areas get
> no coverage at times. T-mobile coverage is also quite spotty locally.
>
> Cheers,
> Steven Black
>
> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 08:48:19PM -0400, Matt Zink wrote:
>
>> Hello All:
>> I'm one of the handful of people on this earth who still doesn't own a cell
>> phone. I'm thinking of getting one now - I'm curious: What do people know
>> about LiMo (Linux on a Mobile) based phones? Does anyone have experience with
>> them? What was your experience? I know that the Razr2 from Motorola is a LiMo
>> phone. Can anyone make any recommendations about plans/carriers as well?
>>
>> You can respond off list if you wish.
>> Take care everyone,
>> Matt
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>

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Re: [BLUG] LiMo Phones, Plans

I know that Ubuntu has a platform for mobile devices, but I've not
heard of anyone shipping with them. I like Ubuntu in general, so I'm
interested in this.

I've been using a Palm Treo for some time. It, however, doesn't really
fit my needs well. What I really need is a good SSH client. (I have a
client for the Treo that loudly proclaims how insecure it probably is.)

I, too, am interested in a decent Linux based phone, preferably with
Sprint as a carrier as I regularly go somewhere without coverage for
anyone else. (Anyone else that goes there gets zero bars. If you have
Sprint, you have full bars.)

I currently have an AT&T plan. I can tell you without a doubt that the
coverage is spotty in Bloomington, and some of the surrounding areas get
no coverage at times. T-mobile coverage is also quite spotty locally.

Cheers,
Steven Black

On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 08:48:19PM -0400, Matt Zink wrote:
> Hello All:
> I'm one of the handful of people on this earth who still doesn't own a cell
> phone. I'm thinking of getting one now - I'm curious: What do people know
> about LiMo (Linux on a Mobile) based phones? Does anyone have experience with
> them? What was your experience? I know that the Razr2 from Motorola is a LiMo
> phone. Can anyone make any recommendations about plans/carriers as well?
>
> You can respond off list if you wish.
> Take care everyone,
> Matt

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Wednesday, July 30, 2008

[BLUG] LiMo Phones, Plans

Hello All:
I'm one of the handful of people on this earth who still doesn't own a cell phone.  I'm thinking of getting one now - I'm curious:  What do people know about LiMo (Linux on a Mobile) based phones?  Does anyone have experience with them?  What was your experience?  I know that the Razr2 from Motorola is a LiMo phone.  Can anyone make any recommendations about plans/carriers as well?

You can respond off list if you wish.
Take care everyone,
Matt

Thursday, July 24, 2008

[BLUG] Blender Users Group

I forget whether I had mentioned this in my previous e-mail and am too
lazy to check. But we're having the first Blender Users Group meeting
tonight at 7pm in Fountain Square Mall room 008. Check the website for
details:

http://www.bl-ender.org/

Mark

--
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Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
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Friday, July 18, 2008

Re: [BLUG] Meeting presentation idea: OpenPGP/Gnu Privacy Guard

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 11:43:27AM -0400, Robert Freeman-Day wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> I will admit, though, I was surprised and impressed that MS opened up a
> crapload of whitepapers/documentaton:
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/interop/
> http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2008/apr08/04-08ProtocolPR.mspx

I'm not surprised. Have you been following the law suit?

Microsoft was fined by the EU for not allowing reasonable access to
documentation for interoperability. Then once MS created a program for
interoperability, they were fined for making it too expensive.

Of course, in this country MS can spin it however they like...

(Thanks for the congrats!)

Cheers,
Steven

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Re: [BLUG] Meeting presentation idea: OpenPGP/Gnu Privacy Guard

Let me support the idea of some one speaking in encryption.

Kevin Ratcliff wrote:
> Just kidding, of course. In many cases an employer has a right to
> monitor employee emails, at least according to articles I've read. I
> wonder what happens if the employer wants to read an email that an
> employee has sent using GPG (using the employers email server). If the
> employee refuses to provide the passphrase (or just decrypt the
> content) for the employer upon request, what happens? Could they
> terminate the employee? I have not idea how this might work.
>
Most people are at-will employees. This means that there employers can
fire them at any time for any reason (or no reason at all) except for a
small list of things protected by Federal Law. Thus, an employer can
fire a black employee because he does not like him, but not because he
is black. This makes for interesting jury trials. Most employers have
the good sense not to use their full powers under the law, because doing
so would upset the remaining employees. Companies where most employees
are upset tend to do poorly in the long run.
> I've read some articles about law enforcement forcing people to
> disclose passphases for encrypted content or face jail time. I find
> that scary, not becasue I'm hiding something, just because it seems
> like a privacy violation.
>
>
If you were paying attention when Starr was using the full power of his
office to try and cause Clinton trouble, you saw some cases somewhat
like this, except that it did not involve encryption. In the US you can
be forced to testify about most matters unless it runs afoul of the 5th
amendment. The courts have ruled that if you are offered immunity then
the 5th amendment does not apply. (I think this even applies with offers
of very limited immunity, but check with your attorney if it is
important to you.) The charge that will keep you in jail is contempt of
court. The good news is that they can keep you there only while the case
you want to testify in is active.

A woman who was suppose to know about Clinton's finances spent several
years in jail while Starr was investigating Clinton. According to her
side of the story, Starr wanted her to testify in a particular way. She
said that if she told the truth, Starr would prosecute her for perjury.
I don't know what was the truth in that particular case, put I do know
that I would be worried if Starr wanted to make my life difficult.

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Re: [BLUG] Meeting presentation idea: OpenPGP/Gnu Privacy Guard

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 10:56 AM, Steven Black <blacks@indiana.edu> wrote:
> * The US Government admits that using unencrypted email is like sending
> all your letters on postcards. There's no expectation of privacy, so
> there's nothing wrong with reading them.

Postcards? Letters? Mail? Does anybody do that any more? You mean I
have to pay per envelope and it can take days to get to the
destination? Why would anybody want that?

Just kidding, of course. In many cases an employer has a right to
monitor employee emails, at least according to articles I've read. I
wonder what happens if the employer wants to read an email that an
employee has sent using GPG (using the employers email server). If the
employee refuses to provide the passphrase (or just decrypt the
content) for the employer upon request, what happens? Could they
terminate the employee? I have not idea how this might work.

I've read some articles about law enforcement forcing people to
disclose passphases for encrypted content or face jail time. I find
that scary, not becasue I'm hiding something, just because it seems
like a privacy violation.

Very interesting topic indeed!

> * To get the most out of encryption, you have to use it all the time.
> If only use encryption for "sensitive" emails, then you've suddenly
> indicated that (1) you have sensitive emails, and (2) these specific
> emails contain all of the sensitive information.

Very true. I suppose it depends on the type of "sensitive" material
being sent. On my personal account I don't think I've ever sent an
encrypted message that would cause any really serious problems if
someone knew it was sensitive and even manged to decrypt the content.
I might get very upset that someone had accessed my "private" mail,
but that's about all that would happen.

At work we have a different method of secure file transfer when
encrypted email is not an option. In general I don't send anything via
my work email that I wouldn't want read by my supervisor or even the
general public. Working for a .edu I know there may be public record
laws that may affect my messages, but I'm unclear exactly how those
laws are applied, so I tend to err on the side of caution.

There are a couple of issues I have with encryption for *every* message:

* I only correspond with regularly with about 5 people who actually
have or use GPG keys. Getting everyone I communicate with via email to
use encryption for every message is not likely to happen in my
lifetime.

* reading messages on mobile devices really isn't an option if they're
GPG encrypted, at least not that I'm aware of. The sensitive messages
shouldn't be read on a mobile device anyway, but I like to be able to
read non-sensitive stuff on the go. Again, in my case disclosure of my
routine email messages wouldn't be the end of the world. For others
this could very well be different depending on the type of "sensitive"
messages.

I am definitely not saying that encrypting every message is
impossible, just that for me I personally don't have anything I send
over email I view as critical enough to justify the extra effort
involved in this.

Of course I still want to learn more about GPG and encryption in general.

Barry mentioned Pidgin in one of his messages. I use Psi on Windows as
my Jabber client, and it integrates with GPG for IM encryption. Just
an FYI in case anyone is interested. I'm not sure if there are other
Windows IM clients that do this or not.

One more GPG related item and then I'll get back to work: I have an
Aladdin eToken, which is a small USB smart card that functions as a
card reader too. Private keys are generated on the device and can't be
exported or otherwise leave the device. I bought it mostly to play
with and learn about smart cards and two-factor authentication. It'll
authenticate with Active Directory if the AD environment is set up
just right with a certificate authority. What I really want to do now
though is generate a private key on it and use it with GPG on Windows.
I gave up after trying, though I don't recall the technical reason
that I couldn't get it to work. PGP's paid version does this, I think
with the same model eToken. I did manage to get an SSH private key
generated on the token and use it with Putty on Windows and also with
the openssh client on linux. Not that I need the added security for
anything, it's just fun to try it.

Sorry for the long-winded message. I'm not trying to start an
encryption argument (especially as the "new guy"), just presenting my
views based on my very limited knowledge of the topic. I'm fine with
continuing the encryption discussion on the mailing list if people
want to or just waiting until the meeting if that's preferred.

I hope to attend a few BLUG meetings in the near future!

Kevin
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Re: [BLUG] More tasty Wine goodness

Thanks for the tip - I'm looking forward to trying it out.  As I am a musician, I may have to check out Fruity Loops too. . . .
Matt

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 10:24 AM, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:

 Now I can see why the Wine team released 1.0.  It runs so much its hard
to believe. It seems magical to run all this Windows software in Linux.
8 years ago I thought that it was somewhat crazy to try to implement a
windows subsystem for Linux, but now its easy to see that the time was
well worth it.  Nearly any program that I've tried to run in Wine works
pretty well. Many things run completely.  Its amazing.  I'm running Wine
1.1.1 on Ubuntu.  I've had to copy a few DLLs over from Windows, but
only about 10 of them.  Some programs work best if you enclose them
inside Wine's virtual desktop emulator.  This is helpful for Games to if
you don't want them to be full screen.

 Right now I'm running the demo version of this music production
software called Fruity Loops (version 8) in it.  It runs really well
too.  Fruity loops is the program that I used 8 years ago to write I
Can't Print (http://suso.suso.org/aural/icantprint.mp3)

 http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/wiki/Image:Fruityloops3.jpg

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Re: [BLUG] Meeting presentation idea: OpenPGP/Gnu Privacy Guard

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I will admit, though, I was surprised and impressed that MS opened up a
crapload of whitepapers/documentaton:

http://www.microsoft.com/interop/
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2008/apr08/04-08ProtocolPR.mspx

Now, we will see where that ACTUALLY takes us.

Steven, congrats on the kid and welcome to the club!

Steven Black wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 08:45:16AM -0400, Barry Schatz wrote:
>> I use Windows at work, as my company is a Microsoft shop. I use Firefox,
>> Thunderbird and Pidgin instead of the MS equivalents. My boss tolerates
>> my love of Free software, but never misses a chance to tease me about
>> Linux and how "they missed their chance" or whatever.
>
> I once worked for a company called Be, Inc. They had a really great
> operating system. More than that, it was POSIX enough your command-line
> apps compiled easily, and easy/pretty enough it was fun to use. This was
> back before GNOME or KDE caught on, when Linux was genuinely ugly to
> look at most of the time.
>
> We had a product that was going to ship on devices. We had the
> deals, we had dates. Microsoft violated NDAs and threatened hardware
> manufacturers. They stopped the product from shipping. They killed BeOS.
> Of course, as the shareholders wanted money more than actually proving
> monopolistic practices, the issue was settled out of court.
>
> Microsoft competitors rarely "miss" chances. Typically it is just MS not
> playing by the same rules as the competition. Linux has done quite well
> for itself, considering who they are competing against.
>
> Cheers,
> Steven Black
>
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uWj0Xjlz6ZYh1YJ1PHyNMHI=
=aqDv
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Re: [BLUG] Meeting presentation idea: OpenPGP/Gnu Privacy Guard

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 10:58:44AM -0400, Barry Schatz wrote:
> As a rule, I never trust a webmail application to be secure. That said,
> FireGPG actually looks decent. It doesn't do any actual encryption or
> decryption itself. You actually need GnuPG installed to do the heavy
> lifting. FireGPG seems to just detect when you're using Gmail and use
> GnuPG on the right blocks.

FireGPG allows you to type of text, then encrypt it right in the
webform. It is a nice idea, but...

By the very nature of the product, it can't set the headers right to
indicate that it is actually encrypted. This causes mailers with good
GPG/PGP support (like Mutt) to fail to recognize that it is GPG encoded
without special hacks which sniff the body of the mail message.

It is a solution if you're trapped in webforms and don't have access
to decent mail applications with good GPG support. It isn't a good
solution, though. It actually can make things much more of a pain in the
ass for people who do use mail apps with good GPG support.

(Yes, I use mutt. I can respond to Outlook events, but managing them is
up to me.)

Cheers,
Steven Black

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Re: [BLUG] Meeting presentation idea: OpenPGP/Gnu Privacy Guard

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 08:45:16AM -0400, Barry Schatz wrote:
> I use Windows at work, as my company is a Microsoft shop. I use Firefox,
> Thunderbird and Pidgin instead of the MS equivalents. My boss tolerates
> my love of Free software, but never misses a chance to tease me about
> Linux and how "they missed their chance" or whatever.

I once worked for a company called Be, Inc. They had a really great
operating system. More than that, it was POSIX enough your command-line
apps compiled easily, and easy/pretty enough it was fun to use. This was
back before GNOME or KDE caught on, when Linux was genuinely ugly to
look at most of the time.

We had a product that was going to ship on devices. We had the
deals, we had dates. Microsoft violated NDAs and threatened hardware
manufacturers. They stopped the product from shipping. They killed BeOS.
Of course, as the shareholders wanted money more than actually proving
monopolistic practices, the issue was settled out of court.

Microsoft competitors rarely "miss" chances. Typically it is just MS not
playing by the same rules as the competition. Linux has done quite well
for itself, considering who they are competing against.

Cheers,
Steven Black

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Re: [BLUG] Meeting presentation idea: OpenPGP/Gnu Privacy Guard

Steven Black wrote:
> Here are some things of note:
>
> * The US Government admits that using unencrypted email is like sending
> all your letters on postcards. There's no expectation of privacy, so
> there's nothing wrong with reading them.
>
Very true. It's a point I'll bring up.
> * To get the most out of encryption, you have to use it all the time.
> If only use encryption for "sensitive" emails, then you've suddenly
> indicated that (1) you have sensitive emails, and (2) these specific
> emails contain all of the sensitive information.
>
I encrypt whenever I can. Unfortunately, some of my friends don't get
why, how or when. We do the best we can with what we have.
> * I've heard the military will actually send encrypted garbage back and
> forth when they have nothing to say. This has two purposes, (1) the
> person listening in has no idea when something important is being say
> as the communication occurs regularly even when everyone knows nothing
> interesting is happening, and (2) if they try to decrypt garbage, they
> can't really get anywhere with it, regardless of how long they try or
> the processing power available.
>
Also an excellent point. There's no sudden spike in encrypted traffic
when something is going to happen.
> I think this is a great topic, personally.
>
> Unfortunately, other life factors have prevented (and will probably
> continue to prevent) my attending in the near future. (1. I'm trying to
> buy a house, if I succeed, it will be quite busy. 2. My wife and I are
> expecting our first in late December, presuming that goes well, things
> will be somewhat hectic for a time.)
>
Life has a funny way of doing that. I'll try to make notes available for
people who can't make it. Congratulations on anticipated fatherhood! Get
all the sleep you can, because your life is about to change drastically
and permanently. I wouldn't know, as I'm single and childless.

-Barry
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Re: [BLUG] Meeting presentation idea: OpenPGP/Gnu Privacy Guard

Kevin Ratcliff wrote:
> Jeremy may have you all thinking he's strictly a linux/Mac guy, but
> he's actually quite experienced in Windows system administration, and
> even does .NET programming! (sorry Jeremy, I'll stop picking on you
> now)
>
I do .NET too. I close my eyes and pretend it's MONO code.
> I use Thunderbird for offline access to my personal email (IMAP), and
> I like it a lot. We have Exchange at work though, and while IMAP does
> work on the Exchange server I gave up using it because of some
> "issues" I ran into. Probably Microsoft's fault for not being
> compliant with the standards, but in any case they didn't play well
> together. I tried Evolution on linux with Exchange too but wasn't
> happy with it either.
>
Kontact supposedly has Exchange support. Never tried it, but it's there.
> Firefox is awesome though! To get back on topic of GPG, is anyone
> using FireGPG (http://getfiregpg.org/) with Gmail? I haven't found a
> lot of information about it and I think it's fairly new so I don't
> really know if it's considered a "secure" implementation.
>
As a rule, I never trust a webmail application to be secure. That said,
FireGPG actually looks decent. It doesn't do any actual encryption or
decryption itself. You actually need GnuPG installed to do the heavy
lifting. FireGPG seems to just detect when you're using Gmail and use
GnuPG on the right blocks.

-Barry

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Re: [BLUG] Meeting presentation idea: OpenPGP/Gnu Privacy Guard

Here are some things of note:

* The US Government admits that using unencrypted email is like sending
all your letters on postcards. There's no expectation of privacy, so
there's nothing wrong with reading them.

* To get the most out of encryption, you have to use it all the time.
If only use encryption for "sensitive" emails, then you've suddenly
indicated that (1) you have sensitive emails, and (2) these specific
emails contain all of the sensitive information.

* I've heard the military will actually send encrypted garbage back and
forth when they have nothing to say. This has two purposes, (1) the
person listening in has no idea when something important is being say
as the communication occurs regularly even when everyone knows nothing
interesting is happening, and (2) if they try to decrypt garbage, they
can't really get anywhere with it, regardless of how long they try or
the processing power available.

I think this is a great topic, personally.

Unfortunately, other life factors have prevented (and will probably
continue to prevent) my attending in the near future. (1. I'm trying to
buy a house, if I succeed, it will be quite busy. 2. My wife and I are
expecting our first in late December, presuming that goes well, things
will be somewhat hectic for a time.)

Cheers,
Steven Black

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 12:35:22PM -0400, Barry Schatz wrote:
> I'm sure this one has been considered several times, but I didn't see it
> in the previous meeting topics.
>
> I'm something of a privacy nut, and I think everyone with email should
> use GPG or equivalent. If it sounds like something the group would like,
> I'm willing to prepare a presentation on GPG. This would include a
> primer in RSA and asymmetric encryption, authentication vs encryption,
> web of trust/key signing, and some demonstrations of GPG in action.
>
> Anyone else interested?
>
> -Barry
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
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[BLUG] More tasty Wine goodness

Now I can see why the Wine team released 1.0. It runs so much its hard
to believe. It seems magical to run all this Windows software in Linux.
8 years ago I thought that it was somewhat crazy to try to implement a
windows subsystem for Linux, but now its easy to see that the time was
well worth it. Nearly any program that I've tried to run in Wine works
pretty well. Many things run completely. Its amazing. I'm running Wine
1.1.1 on Ubuntu. I've had to copy a few DLLs over from Windows, but
only about 10 of them. Some programs work best if you enclose them
inside Wine's virtual desktop emulator. This is helpful for Games to if
you don't want them to be full screen.

Right now I'm running the demo version of this music production
software called Fruity Loops (version 8) in it. It runs really well
too. Fruity loops is the program that I used 8 years ago to write I
Can't Print (http://suso.suso.org/aural/icantprint.mp3)

http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/wiki/Image:Fruityloops3.jpg

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
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Re: [BLUG] Meeting presentation idea: OpenPGP/Gnu Privacy Guard

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 8:45 AM, Barry Schatz <sorbetninja@gmail.com> wrote:
> I use Windows at work, as my company is a Microsoft shop. I use Firefox,
> Thunderbird and Pidgin instead of the MS equivalents. My boss tolerates my
> love of Free software, but never misses a chance to tease me about Linux and
> how "they missed their chance" or whatever.

We were pretty much an all Windows shop here until Jeremy showed us
the light :) Now we're a mixed environment for the servers, though
client PC's are almost all Windows.

Jeremy may have you all thinking he's strictly a linux/Mac guy, but
he's actually quite experienced in Windows system administration, and
even does .NET programming! (sorry Jeremy, I'll stop picking on you
now)

> I plan to demonstrate Thunderbird with enigmail and GPG in Windows as well
> as on Linux, so you're not SOL when you're away from Linux. Also, there's an
> add-on for Thunderbird called LookOut that lets you handle the TNEF encoded
> bits of emails from Outlook.

I use Thunderbird for offline access to my personal email (IMAP), and
I like it a lot. We have Exchange at work though, and while IMAP does
work on the Exchange server I gave up using it because of some
"issues" I ran into. Probably Microsoft's fault for not being
compliant with the standards, but in any case they didn't play well
together. I tried Evolution on linux with Exchange too but wasn't
happy with it either.

Firefox is awesome though! To get back on topic of GPG, is anyone
using FireGPG (http://getfiregpg.org/) with Gmail? I haven't found a
lot of information about it and I think it's fairly new so I don't
really know if it's considered a "secure" implementation.

Kevin
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Re: [BLUG] Meeting presentation idea: OpenPGP/Gnu Privacy Guard

I use Windows at work, as my company is a Microsoft shop. I use Firefox,
Thunderbird and Pidgin instead of the MS equivalents. My boss tolerates
my love of Free software, but never misses a chance to tease me about
Linux and how "they missed their chance" or whatever.

I plan to demonstrate Thunderbird with enigmail and GPG in Windows as
well as on Linux, so you're not SOL when you're away from Linux. Also,
there's an add-on for Thunderbird called LookOut that lets you handle
the TNEF encoded bits of emails from Outlook.

And Jeremy, we definitely need a keysigning party! But we have to do the
signing before the drinking. http://xkcd.com/364/ is what happens when
you do it wrong.

-Barry

Kevin Ratcliff wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 12:35 PM, Barry Schatz <sorbetninja@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Anyone else interested?
>>
>
> I'm very interested in this topic! I occasionally use GPG on Windows
> with Microsoft LookOut at work, but it's fairly rare that I send
> "sensitive" information via email. I'd love to learn a better approach
> though, as GPG with Outlook is kind of a pain the way I do it now.
>
> BTW, I've been on the BLUG mailing list for a while now but haven't
> introduced myself to the group yet or been to a meeting. Anyway, I
> work at Ivy Tech with Jeremy during the day and "play" with computers
> the rest of my free time (typical geek, I guess). In case you are
> wondering about my references to Outlook above, yes, I am a Windows
> user and a linux user. I spend more time in a Windows GUI than I do a
> linux command line, and I think both have their uses. Even though
> linux isn't my primary OS I still very much enjoy learning it.
>
> I hope to attend a meeting soon, if you'll allow a Windows user; maybe
> some of you can convince me to switch over from the dark side :)
>
> Kevin Ratcliff
>
>
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Thursday, July 17, 2008

Re: [BLUG] Meeting presentation idea: OpenPGP/Gnu Privacy Guard

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 12:35 PM, Barry Schatz <sorbetninja@gmail.com> wrote:
> Anyone else interested?

I'm very interested in this topic! I occasionally use GPG on Windows
with Microsoft LookOut at work, but it's fairly rare that I send
"sensitive" information via email. I'd love to learn a better approach
though, as GPG with Outlook is kind of a pain the way I do it now.

BTW, I've been on the BLUG mailing list for a while now but haven't
introduced myself to the group yet or been to a meeting. Anyway, I
work at Ivy Tech with Jeremy during the day and "play" with computers
the rest of my free time (typical geek, I guess). In case you are
wondering about my references to Outlook above, yes, I am a Windows
user and a linux user. I spend more time in a Windows GUI than I do a
linux command line, and I think both have their uses. Even though
linux isn't my primary OS I still very much enjoy learning it.

I hope to attend a meeting soon, if you'll allow a Windows user; maybe
some of you can convince me to switch over from the dark side :)

Kevin Ratcliff
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Re: [BLUG] Meeting presentation idea: OpenPGP/Gnu Privacy Guard

Have your key fingerprints and photo ID's ready and we can have a
keysigning afterwards too, maybe at Nick's! :)

--
Jeremy L. Gaddis


On Jul 17, 2008, at 10:37 PM, "David Ernst"
<david.ernst@davidernst.net> wrote:

> Yeah, everyday encryption is in my category of "If I had a full
> understanding of it, I bet I'd do it all the time." Instead I dig it
> out and read the manuals when I really need it, which isn't very
> often, so I'm very unsure. A presentation would be great.
>
> David
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:26:42PM -0400, Dave Cooley wrote:
>> Count me interested! I'm sure I'd learn plenty. Holler when you
>> want to
>> give it, and I'll schedule you.
>>
>> Right now, I'm mulling the idea of giving a presentation on Zimbra
>> (open-source mail server, postfix backend) myself.
>>
>> Dave Cooley
>> dcooley@kiva.net
>>
>>
>>
>> Barry Schatz wrote:
>>> I'm sure this one has been considered several times, but I didn't
>>> see
>>> it in the previous meeting topics.
>>>
>>> I'm something of a privacy nut, and I think everyone with email
>>> should
>>> use GPG or equivalent. If it sounds like something the group would
>>> like, I'm willing to prepare a presentation on GPG. This would
>>> include
>>> a primer in RSA and asymmetric encryption, authentication vs
>>> encryption, web of trust/key signing, and some demonstrations of GPG
>>> in action.
>>>
>>> Anyone else interested?
>>>
>>> -Barry
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BLUG mailing list
>>> BLUG@linuxfan.com
>>> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>> _______________________________________________
>> BLUG mailing list
>> BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
_______________________________________________
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Re: [BLUG] Meeting presentation idea: OpenPGP/Gnu Privacy Guard

Yeah, everyday encryption is in my category of "If I had a full
understanding of it, I bet I'd do it all the time." Instead I dig it
out and read the manuals when I really need it, which isn't very
often, so I'm very unsure. A presentation would be great.

David


On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:26:42PM -0400, Dave Cooley wrote:
>Count me interested! I'm sure I'd learn plenty. Holler when you want to
>give it, and I'll schedule you.
>
>Right now, I'm mulling the idea of giving a presentation on Zimbra
>(open-source mail server, postfix backend) myself.
>
>Dave Cooley
>dcooley@kiva.net
>
>
>
>Barry Schatz wrote:
>>I'm sure this one has been considered several times, but I didn't see
>>it in the previous meeting topics.
>>
>>I'm something of a privacy nut, and I think everyone with email should
>>use GPG or equivalent. If it sounds like something the group would
>>like, I'm willing to prepare a presentation on GPG. This would include
>>a primer in RSA and asymmetric encryption, authentication vs
>>encryption, web of trust/key signing, and some demonstrations of GPG
>>in action.
>>
>>Anyone else interested?
>>
>>-Barry
>>_______________________________________________
>>BLUG mailing list
>>BLUG@linuxfan.com
>>http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>_______________________________________________
>BLUG mailing list
>BLUG@linuxfan.com
>http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
_______________________________________________
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Re: [BLUG] Meeting presentation idea: OpenPGP/Gnu Privacy Guard

Count me interested! I'm sure I'd learn plenty. Holler when you want to
give it, and I'll schedule you.

Right now, I'm mulling the idea of giving a presentation on Zimbra
(open-source mail server, postfix backend) myself.

Dave Cooley
dcooley@kiva.net

Barry Schatz wrote:
> I'm sure this one has been considered several times, but I didn't see
> it in the previous meeting topics.
>
> I'm something of a privacy nut, and I think everyone with email should
> use GPG or equivalent. If it sounds like something the group would
> like, I'm willing to prepare a presentation on GPG. This would include
> a primer in RSA and asymmetric encryption, authentication vs
> encryption, web of trust/key signing, and some demonstrations of GPG
> in action.
>
> Anyone else interested?
>
> -Barry
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
_______________________________________________
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[BLUG] Meeting presentation idea: OpenPGP/Gnu Privacy Guard

I'm sure this one has been considered several times, but I didn't see it
in the previous meeting topics.

I'm something of a privacy nut, and I think everyone with email should
use GPG or equivalent. If it sounds like something the group would like,
I'm willing to prepare a presentation on GPG. This would include a
primer in RSA and asymmetric encryption, authentication vs encryption,
web of trust/key signing, and some demonstrations of GPG in action.

Anyone else interested?

-Barry
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[BLUG] Employment/Consulting

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

We got this in our support queue this week, thought I would pass it on
to BLUG:


To whom it may concern:

I may be barking up the wrong tree, but I was hoping for some help.
We are an IT Consulting Services firm HQ'd in Indianapolis. One of our
clients has a need for a full-time Unix Systems Administrator, and we
are trying to get the word out.
I do not know exactly what the users group does, but I thought maybe
there was an opportunity or way to let members know of the opportunity.
I called the Users Group number, and someone suggested I send this to you.
Let me know if you have any ideas or help for us, and I look forward to
the response.
Best regards,
Kris Theno
President-Midwest Sourcing
(317) 752-6934

- --
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Knepper rknepper@indiana.edu
Research Technologies Core Services 812.855.9574

"You deserve free software."
PGP Public Key:
http://php.indiana.edu/~rknepper/rknepper_pubkey.asc
- ------------------------------------------------------------
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFIf1pl9hxTT7Mzu7oRAnWQAJ91hKR8RWhTgy1t5ILhToNYZ/cYYwCcCYAR
7QIJLwGgcjz8CT510Z8QJkk=
=2p/O
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Wednesday, July 16, 2008

[BLUG] Meeting aftermath

Hi, I just wanted to send a few links to the list for things that I
went over last night.

Asterisk:

http://www.asterisk.org/

Blender:

http://www.blender.org/

http://www.blenderartists.org/

Also, we are trying to start a local Bloomington Blender Users Group,
the website is at http://www.bl-ender.org/site/

If you click on the
link to forums, you can post to the thread to let us know what time
you'd be available for meetings. Or if you know anyone who is into 3D
graphics modeling and rendering on any software, you might pass this
along. Thanks.

Wine:

http://www.winehq.org/

Although you can install wine from most
distributions through the package manager. Here is a screenshot I made
yesterday showing me running 6 programs at once through Wine:

http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/wiki/Image:Winemultipleapps3.jpg

Num-utils:

http://suso.suso.org/programs/num-utils/

http://suso.suso.org/programs/num-utils/cms/ (New site I'm working on)

You can actually install num-utils directly from apt in Debian or
Ubuntu and from portage in Gentoo. The 0.6 version should be out this
month.


--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
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Tuesday, July 15, 2008

Re: [BLUG] Setup a software VoIP phone for tonight?

I have Ekiga installed but I have never configured it -- or even started
it to be honest. So there may be some setup.

Jim

On Tue, 2008-07-15 at 18:24 +0000, Mark Krenz wrote:
> Could someone bring their laptop that has ethernet capability and
> install Ekiga or Counterpath X-Lite on it. I'm going to try to get
> Asterisk working quickly on my laptop and will bring a hard VoIP phone
> and then we could at least do some more Asterisk demostrations even
> though I can't connect to Suso's Asterisk server from the library.
>
> I'll give out the client auth information at the presentation.
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
--
James D. McKean
Director of Information Technology
Pratt Corporation
www.prattcorp.com
317-524-3334

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Re: [BLUG] Setup a software VoIP phone for tonight?

Mark Krenz wrote:
> Could someone bring their laptop that has ethernet capability and
> install Ekiga or Counterpath X-Lite on it. I'm going to try to get
> Asterisk working quickly on my laptop and will bring a hard VoIP phone
> and then we could at least do some more Asterisk demostrations even
> though I can't connect to Suso's Asterisk server from the library.
>
> I'll give out the client auth information at the presentation.

You could at that point try to pass IAX2 traffic between your laptop
running asterisk and the Suso asterisk server. This way your sip
clients could talk to the outside world.

Just an idea...

Scott Blaydes


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[BLUG] Setup a software VoIP phone for tonight?

Could someone bring their laptop that has ethernet capability and
install Ekiga or Counterpath X-Lite on it. I'm going to try to get
Asterisk working quickly on my laptop and will bring a hard VoIP phone
and then we could at least do some more Asterisk demostrations even
though I can't connect to Suso's Asterisk server from the library.

I'll give out the client auth information at the presentation.

Thanks,
Mark

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
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Monday, July 14, 2008

Re: [BLUG] importance of media (was: recommendations on a good...)

On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 05:14:04PM GMT, Steven Black [blacks@indiana.edu] said the following:
>
> SD seems to be the preferred media at this time. Some DVD players and
> even televisions have direct support for SD cards. Note, though, there's
> a sharp difference between normal SD cards and "Micro SD" cards. You
> can, however, buy adapters allowing you to plug your Micro SD card in to
> a machine accepting SD cards.

Speaking of Micro SD cards, they are insanely small for how much data
is stored on them. I have a 2GB one for my phone and the actual memory
part only takes up half the chip (about 5mm x 7mm). I'm afraid to lose
it. I did a rough calculation once and speculate that Micro SD cards
have about the same memory density as the human brain. Based on current
estimates of how much equivilently the brain can store (~40 TB).

And they are talking about releasing 12GB MicroSDHC cards in the near
future. I think its a safe bet that we will eventually see 1TB thumb
drives for $50. After all, they already have 32GB ones. Insane,
Insane, Insane.


--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
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Re: [BLUG] Meeting tommorow

I'll have my phone, you're welcome to it.

Dave Cooley
dcooley@kiva.net

Mark Krenz wrote:
> Hi, yes there will still be a meeting tommorow at 7pm in room 1A.
> There will just be a change to the topic. INstead of showing just
> Asterisk, I decided to turn this meeting into a few different topics
> based on things I've been working on recently. Asterisk and VoIP will
> be one of them, but I'll also talk about and demonstrate WINE (the
> program that allows you to run Windows programs natively in Linux),
> Blender3D (The 3D rendering, modeling, animation and game making
> application. And also I'll talk a bit about the new version of
> num-utils that I've been working on. So there should be something
> interesting for everyone.
>
> The reason for the change is that I haven't had enough time to meet with
> Ned Baugh and figure out why I can't connect my VoIP phone back to our
> office from the library. Not being able to have the VoIP phone at the
> demonstration makes it hard to clearly demonstrate a lot of the
> features. No biggie, I can still show some other things and if someone
> would be willing to let me borrow their cell phone during the
> presentation, I can show what happens with two lines.
>
> Mark
>
>
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Re: [BLUG] more on batteries

Do they not make Lithium-ion batteries for Canon cameras in this price
range?


Steven Black wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 03:50:57AM +0000, Mark Krenz wrote:
>> As for batteries. I never understand why people want to have AA
>> batteries instead of the lithium recargeable. Sure, if you lose one it
>> is expensive to replace, but just don't do that. I've never had one
>> fail on me, but I guess that can happen. AA rechargeable batteries
>> won't last as long as actual AA batteries. Especially the Energizer
>> rechargeable ones. Those suck.
>
> My wife and I had trouble with rechargables until we found out there
> were a number of ways to kill them.
>
> AA rechargable batteries can last *longer* than actual AA batteries.
> Once we started taking care of our rechargable batteries, the number of
> pictures per battery change suddenly jumped way up. (And we normally use
> flash.)
>
> You need a smart recharger that won't overcharge the battery and avoids
> polarity reversal.
>
> If a rechargable battery is just left charging, it loses capacity. If it
> is left for days, you can make it totally useless.
>
> Simple overnight chargers are a quick easy way to kill rechargable
> batteries. Don't use them. Instead use smart quick chargers that shut
> off automatically when it is done.
>
> Also, avoid rechargable batteries that don't support quick chargers.
> They're just a waste of money. The slow chargers are much more likely
> to damage the battery life. If the battery doesn't support the quick
> chargers, you're basically buying little more than a single-use battery.
>
> Cheers,
> Steven Black
>
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug


--
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Re: [BLUG] more on batteries (was: recommendations on a good digi cam)

On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 03:50:57AM +0000, Mark Krenz wrote:
> As for batteries. I never understand why people want to have AA
> batteries instead of the lithium recargeable. Sure, if you lose one it
> is expensive to replace, but just don't do that. I've never had one
> fail on me, but I guess that can happen. AA rechargeable batteries
> won't last as long as actual AA batteries. Especially the Energizer
> rechargeable ones. Those suck.

My wife and I had trouble with rechargables until we found out there
were a number of ways to kill them.

AA rechargable batteries can last *longer* than actual AA batteries.
Once we started taking care of our rechargable batteries, the number of
pictures per battery change suddenly jumped way up. (And we normally use
flash.)

You need a smart recharger that won't overcharge the battery and avoids
polarity reversal.

If a rechargable battery is just left charging, it loses capacity. If it
is left for days, you can make it totally useless.

Simple overnight chargers are a quick easy way to kill rechargable
batteries. Don't use them. Instead use smart quick chargers that shut
off automatically when it is done.

Also, avoid rechargable batteries that don't support quick chargers.
They're just a waste of money. The slow chargers are much more likely
to damage the battery life. If the battery doesn't support the quick
chargers, you're basically buying little more than a single-use battery.

Cheers,
Steven Black

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Re: [BLUG] importance of media (was: recommendations on a good...)

Make sure the model you pick has a popular media, which is reasonably
cheap.

If you're thinking about a camera that doesn't have removable media, my
advice is to avoid it. There's nothing like having lost a USB cable and
a having full camera to spoil a special occassion. Also, while you may
think you'll always have your PC with you, it can really suck to find
yourself in the middle of a good time with friends/family (like at, say,
an amusement park) where you have access to your PC in the evening, but
the lack of a PC when your camera gets full prevents you from taking
a super-cute photo of a child/spouse.

SD seems to be the preferred media at this time. Some DVD players and
even televisions have direct support for SD cards. Note, though, there's
a sharp difference between normal SD cards and "Micro SD" cards. You
can, however, buy adapters allowing you to plug your Micro SD card in to
a machine accepting SD cards.

More than that, if your computer of choice doesn't already have built-in
support for the camera media, get yourself a USB-based adapter for it.
These should go for under/around $20.

You can now pop out the media from the camera, load it with a fresh
card, hand it back to the person taking pictures, and load the pictures
from the full card in to your computer.

Most cameras are writing JPGs (and MPG/AVI files) directly to the media.
(This is as opposed to using a proprietary format which later needs to
be converted to a standard format.) Most systems will detect media cards
and deal with importing the photos reasonably, though it is possible to
traverse the filesystem and copy files off manually.

Note: If you delete photos in-camera you can get photos out-of-order
(depending on model), otherwise copying them from the card to the PC
should preserve order taken. This can happen whether you plug in the
media or the camera to the computer. (It can be bothersome if you don't
clean the card off regularly.)

Cheers,
Steven Black

On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 03:16:48PM -0400, matthewzin@gmail.com wrote:
> I'd be interested in this info as well, particularly if there is one camera
> that is a little more Ubuntu friendlier than others. (Though I suspect this
> won't be much of an issue.)
> Thanks,
> Matt

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Re: [BLUG] recommendations on a good digi cam

Hey Ben. I'm going to put my vote in on the Canon PowerShots too. I used a SD110 for a few years until it fell 4 floors off my balcony, and now I've been using a SD600. I've played with other PowerShot models and they all work really well.

Weldon

On 7/12/08 3:10 PM, "Ben Shewmaker" <ben@shewbox.org> wrote:

Hey everybody,

I'm in the market for a new digital camera. I'm looking to spend between $200 and maybe as high as $300 depending on the camera and the deal. I'm looking for a decent point and shoot, but I don't need anything really advanced or fancy, just want a good quality camera with a good lens that takes great pictures. I was wondering if anyone has any recommendations?

Thanks!

Ben Shewmaker


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Re: [BLUG] note on batteries for digi cams (was: recommendations on a good...)

My wife and I have been using AA-powered cameras for some time.

Some important things to note:

1. These devices gobble up cheap batteries like you wouldn't believe. It
isn't worth "saving money" by buying cheap batteries. Dollar batteries
may only give you three shots.

2. Even high-end batteries aren't as good as nice rechargable batteries.
(It's a myth that rechargable batteries aren't as good as disposable
alkaline batteries.) http://www.greenbatteries.com/batterymyths.html
We've had much better over-all luck (and signficantly cheaper overall)
using nice rechargable batteries with our digi cams.

Cheers,
Steven Black

On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 09:38:04PM -0400, Michael Schultheiss wrote:
> I second the recommendation of Canon Powershots. They're powered by AA
> batteries, which you can get anywhere. My wife and I had a bad
> experience with a Sony camera with a proprietary battery pack so we've
> used AA powered cameras ever since. Our latest camera was an A650is.
> It was about $400 last year but a recent check shows it for $306.94.
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
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[BLUG] Meeting tommorow

Hi, yes there will still be a meeting tommorow at 7pm in room 1A.
There will just be a change to the topic. INstead of showing just
Asterisk, I decided to turn this meeting into a few different topics
based on things I've been working on recently. Asterisk and VoIP will
be one of them, but I'll also talk about and demonstrate WINE (the
program that allows you to run Windows programs natively in Linux),
Blender3D (The 3D rendering, modeling, animation and game making
application. And also I'll talk a bit about the new version of
num-utils that I've been working on. So there should be something
interesting for everyone.

The reason for the change is that I haven't had enough time to meet with
Ned Baugh and figure out why I can't connect my VoIP phone back to our
office from the library. Not being able to have the VoIP phone at the
demonstration makes it hard to clearly demonstrate a lot of the
features. No biggie, I can still show some other things and if someone
would be willing to let me borrow their cell phone during the
presentation, I can show what happens with two lines.

Mark

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
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Sunday, July 13, 2008

[BLUG] REMINDER: Next BLUG meeting Tues 07/15

Just as a reminder-

What: Next BLUG Meeting
Why: Mark Krenz will be demonstrating Asterisk
Where: Monroe County Public Library, meeting room 1A
When: Tuesday, July 15 2008 @ 7:00pm


What is Asterisk?  Asterisk is an open source phone system for Linux.  It can run (with special hardware) connected to POTS (plain old telephone service; the outside world), or it can run as a pure VOIP system using IP phones and "softphones" (with your mic and headset, or similar).  It can be connected to a single line or many lines and then run to extensions for everybody with voice mail, on-hold music, etc (if you like).

Asterisk is mature, *very* full-featured, relatively easy to program (as they say: easy to learn, a challenge to master), and suitable for anything from talking amongst friends, to an enterprise phone system for your company (I really mean that).
If you have any interest in telephony, VOIP, or real-time communication via the internet, I strongly suggest you come along and check out Mark's talk.
--  Dave Cooley dcooley@kiva.net

Re: [BLUG] recommendations on a good digi cam

On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 02:16:50AM GMT, Ben Shewmaker [ben@shewbox.org] said the following:
> Yeah, thanks everyone for their input. My uncle also has been a powershot
> user for the last several years and always recommended them. Now to decide
> which model, how many megapixels, and what extra features I want/need.

Unless you are going to print out your pictures, I think any number of
megapixels above 5 is useless. All it makes is a very large picture
that you then have to store on your computer and backup. Regardless of
the camera, you should be able to reduce the picture size that you take.
If the picture is clear enough, you may be able to zoom in on a specific
portion of it, but most point and shoot cameras don't take pictures that
are so good that you'd notice a difference.

Also, I'd recommend to everyone that you be careful about large SD
cards and that you test them for a few days before taking pictures with
them. I've started putting expiration dates on my SD cards after which
I will throw them out. I've been reading too many reviews about
people's memory cards failing and I'd hate to lose some really important
pictures.

> I think some of the appeal of having a camera that takes AA's is that if you
> need replacement batteries, they are available worldwide. The proprietary
> work fine for most people most of the time, I'm sure. But I guess it is a
> personal thing and I just like having the option of finding batteries no
> matter where I am. I do have some rechargeable AA's and I'm not a big
> photographer so I find that this works fine for me. And I completely agree
> with staying away from Sony and their proprietary formats. In fact I tend
> to try to stay away from most Sony products in general precisely because of
> their obsession with closed hardware. I mean, do they really have to come
> up with their own format for every type of media?

Sony did invent some media formats that have been wildly successful in
the past (The Compact Disc, the 3.5" floppy disk and almost Betamax) and
I'm guessing they are just trying to recapture their ability to do that.
The problem is that they are not being open enough and I think that's
why these new formats are failing.


--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
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Re: [BLUG] recommendations on a good digi cam

Yeah, thanks everyone for their input.  My uncle also has been a powershot user for the last several years and always recommended them.  Now to decide which model, how many megapixels, and what extra features I want/need.

I think some of the appeal of having a camera that takes AA's is that if you need replacement batteries, they are available worldwide.  The proprietary  work fine for most  people most of the time, I'm sure.  But I guess it is a personal thing and I just like having the option of finding batteries no matter where I am.  I do have some rechargeable AA's and I'm not a big photographer so I find that this works fine for me.  And I completely agree with staying away from Sony and their proprietary formats.  In fact I tend to try to stay away from most Sony products in general precisely because of their obsession with closed hardware.  I mean, do they really have to come up with their own format for every type of media? 

But, yeah, thanks for the input everybody.

On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 5:28 PM, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:
On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 04:45:06AM GMT, Matt Zink [matthewzin@gmail.com] said the following:
> just a matter of preference.  These even seem kinda cool:
> http://www.usbcell.com/
>

 Wow, those are cool!  Not having to carry the charger with you would
be awesome.

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
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Re: [BLUG] recommendations on a good digi cam

On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 04:45:06AM GMT, Matt Zink [matthewzin@gmail.com] said the following:
> just a matter of preference. These even seem kinda cool:
> http://www.usbcell.com/
>

Wow, those are cool! Not having to carry the charger with you would
be awesome.

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
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Re: [BLUG] recommendations on a good digi cam

On Saturday 12 July 2008 11:50:57 pm Mark Krenz wrote:
> Well, I recommend a Canon Powershot too. That's three recommendations
> of the Canon from Linux users. ;-) I had a Powershot 110 that lasted
> me for 5 years or so and a now I have a Powershot SD700 IS. Both were
> great cameras and I tested several before buying. Sonys may look cool,
> but they don't make good still cameras IMHO. If you want a dedicated
> video camera, buy a Sony, if you want a good still camera that also
> takes videos, go with Canon.
>
> One word of warning though. If you like to take low light pictures,
> be careful and try to get samples of the output before buying any
> digital camera. In the last couple years, I've noticed that many
> cameras of various brands have started taking worse than ideal low light
> pictures. They end up very grainy. I'm the kind of person that doesn't
> like to use a flash because it gives the picture that plastic fake look
> to it.
>
> Also, it was a pleasant surprise to me that my 700 IS had the ability
> to do macro shots, which usually requires a special lens on SLR cameras.
> So if you want to ever take shots of something very small (like a penny
> or something), then you might look for that feature. It can be fun.
> Maybe all cameras have this nowadays (haven't looked recently), but it
> is was not a typical feature when I bought my last one.
>
> Also, if you like to show off your pictures, Canon cameras make nice
> presentation devices as they come standard with a cable too output to
> your TV. Also, I'd recommend getting a camera that has standard types
> of Memory. Don't get Sony memory sticks. If you happen to have a
> Nintendo Wii, it can take standard SD type memory and it has a really
> awesome picture presenter channel on the Wii itself that is almost worth
> the price of the Wii.
>
> As for Linux compatibity, I've never had any problems really because I
> don't attempt to hook the camera directly up to my computer, I usually
> just copy the files off the memory card itself.
>
> As for batteries. I never understand why people want to have AA
> batteries instead of the lithium recargeable. Sure, if you lose one it
> is expensive to replace, but just don't do that. I've never had one
> fail on me, but I guess that can happen. AA rechargeable batteries
> won't last as long as actual AA batteries. Especially the Energizer
> rechargeable ones. Those suck.
>
> Its really too bad that Robert's on Kirkwood went out of business.
> They had excellent prices and service. I bought all my cameras there.
> I don't know who to go to now that would actually know what they are
> talking about and not some Best Buy lacky. Any recommendations on that?
>
> Sorry this went so long. I guess you hit a chord in me.
>
> Mark
>
> On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 01:38:04AM GMT, Michael Schultheiss
[schultmc@cinlug.org] said the following:
> > Pawsitive Results wrote:
> > > I've been *really* happy with my Canon Powershot--mine's an older
> > > model, the A520. It was in the price range listed when I bought it,
> > > and I couldn't possibly be happier with it. Several agility/border
> > > collie friends have asked for my advice, and I've recommended the
> > > PowerShot--everyone has been pleased. Better-than-typical macro
> > > capability, decent at stopping action.
> >
> > I second the recommendation of Canon Powershots. They're powered by AA
> > batteries, which you can get anywhere. My wife and I had a bad
> > experience with a Sony camera with a proprietary battery pack so we've
> > used AA powered cameras ever since. Our latest camera was an A650is.
> > It was about $400 last year but a recent check shows it for $306.94.
> > _______________________________________________
> > BLUG mailing list
> > BLUG@linuxfan.com
> > http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

One thing I want to toss in is that how linux friendly most camera's are
really don't matter as long as they have a memory card you can pull out and
and slap into a card reader.
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Saturday, July 12, 2008

Re: [BLUG] recommendations on a good digi cam

Well, that kinda seals the deal for me then.  I was actually thinking about going the Canon route anyway.  Our current digital is a beat up 3.7 megapixel Canon Powershot.  The thing has really come through for us.  It never lets us down.

I second Mark's opinion about the "proprietary" batteries - would rather recharge a lithium to throwing a bunch of money away on AA's.  I guess it's just a matter of preference.  These even seem kinda cool:
http://www.usbcell.com/

I also tend to copy my photos the way Mark does:  stick the CF card into a CF card reader, jam the card reader into the USB port, then copy and paste.  

Great advice everyone and thanks!
Matt

Re: [BLUG] recommendations on a good digi cam

Well, I recommend a Canon Powershot too. That's three recommendations
of the Canon from Linux users. ;-) I had a Powershot 110 that lasted
me for 5 years or so and a now I have a Powershot SD700 IS. Both were
great cameras and I tested several before buying. Sonys may look cool,
but they don't make good still cameras IMHO. If you want a dedicated
video camera, buy a Sony, if you want a good still camera that also
takes videos, go with Canon.

One word of warning though. If you like to take low light pictures,
be careful and try to get samples of the output before buying any
digital camera. In the last couple years, I've noticed that many
cameras of various brands have started taking worse than ideal low light
pictures. They end up very grainy. I'm the kind of person that doesn't
like to use a flash because it gives the picture that plastic fake look
to it.

Also, it was a pleasant surprise to me that my 700 IS had the ability
to do macro shots, which usually requires a special lens on SLR cameras.
So if you want to ever take shots of something very small (like a penny
or something), then you might look for that feature. It can be fun.
Maybe all cameras have this nowadays (haven't looked recently), but it
is was not a typical feature when I bought my last one.

Also, if you like to show off your pictures, Canon cameras make nice
presentation devices as they come standard with a cable too output to
your TV. Also, I'd recommend getting a camera that has standard types
of Memory. Don't get Sony memory sticks. If you happen to have a
Nintendo Wii, it can take standard SD type memory and it has a really
awesome picture presenter channel on the Wii itself that is almost worth
the price of the Wii.

As for Linux compatibity, I've never had any problems really because I
don't attempt to hook the camera directly up to my computer, I usually
just copy the files off the memory card itself.

As for batteries. I never understand why people want to have AA
batteries instead of the lithium recargeable. Sure, if you lose one it
is expensive to replace, but just don't do that. I've never had one
fail on me, but I guess that can happen. AA rechargeable batteries
won't last as long as actual AA batteries. Especially the Energizer
rechargeable ones. Those suck.

Its really too bad that Robert's on Kirkwood went out of business.
They had excellent prices and service. I bought all my cameras there.
I don't know who to go to now that would actually know what they are
talking about and not some Best Buy lacky. Any recommendations on that?

Sorry this went so long. I guess you hit a chord in me.

Mark

On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 01:38:04AM GMT, Michael Schultheiss [schultmc@cinlug.org] said the following:
> Pawsitive Results wrote:
> > I've been *really* happy with my Canon Powershot--mine's an older
> > model, the A520. It was in the price range listed when I bought it, and
> > I couldn't possibly be happier with it. Several agility/border collie
> > friends have asked for my advice, and I've recommended the
> > PowerShot--everyone has been pleased. Better-than-typical macro
> > capability, decent at stopping action.
>
> I second the recommendation of Canon Powershots. They're powered by AA
> batteries, which you can get anywhere. My wife and I had a bad
> experience with a Sony camera with a proprietary battery pack so we've
> used AA powered cameras ever since. Our latest camera was an A650is.
> It was about $400 last year but a recent check shows it for $306.94.
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>

--
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Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
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BLUG mailing list
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Re: [BLUG] recommendations on a good digi cam

I've never owned a Canon I wasn't pleased with.  Darn fine cameras.

If you want to go "on the cheap" I've also been quite pleased with my inexpensive Kodak (which also can use AA batteries, if you can't get to the charger).
Dave Cooley dcooley@kiva.net


Michael Schultheiss wrote:
Pawsitive Results wrote:   
   I've been *really* happy with my Canon Powershot--mine's an older    model, the A520. It was in the price range listed when I bought it, and    I couldn't possibly be happier with it. Several agility/border collie    friends have asked for my advice, and I've recommended the    PowerShot--everyone has been pleased. Better-than-typical macro    capability, decent at stopping action.     
 I second the recommendation of Canon Powershots.  They're powered by AA batteries, which you can get anywhere.  My wife and I had a bad experience with a Sony camera with a proprietary battery pack so we've used AA powered cameras ever since.  Our latest camera was an A650is. It was about $400 last year but a recent check shows it for $306.94. _______________________________________________ BLUG mailing list BLUG@linuxfan.com http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug   

Re: [BLUG] recommendations on a good digi cam

Pawsitive Results wrote:
> I've been *really* happy with my Canon Powershot--mine's an older
> model, the A520. It was in the price range listed when I bought it, and
> I couldn't possibly be happier with it. Several agility/border collie
> friends have asked for my advice, and I've recommended the
> PowerShot--everyone has been pleased. Better-than-typical macro
> capability, decent at stopping action.

I second the recommendation of Canon Powershots. They're powered by AA
batteries, which you can get anywhere. My wife and I had a bad
experience with a Sony camera with a proprietary battery pack so we've
used AA powered cameras ever since. Our latest camera was an A650is.
It was about $400 last year but a recent check shows it for $306.94.
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Re: [BLUG] recommendations on a good digi cam

I've been *really* happy with my Canon Powershot--mine's an older model, the A520. It was in the price range listed when I bought it, and I couldn't possibly be happier with it. Several agility/border collie friends have asked for my advice, and I've recommended the PowerShot--everyone has been pleased. Better-than-typical macro capability, decent at stopping action.

(Xen finished her AKC Novice Standard title this morning at an agility trial up in Carmel.)

Ana Greavu



On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 3:16 PM, matthewzin@gmail.com <matthewzin@gmail.com> wrote:
I'd be interested in this info as well, particularly if there is one camera that is a little more Ubuntu friendlier than others.  (Though I suspect this won't be much of an issue.)
Thanks,
Matt

Ben Shewmaker wrote:
Hey everybody,

I'm in the market for a new digital camera.  I'm looking to spend between $200 and maybe as high as $300 depending on the camera and the deal.  I'm looking for a decent point and shoot, but I don't need anything really advanced or fancy, just want a good quality camera with a good lens that takes great pictures.  I was wondering if anyone has any recommendations?

Thanks!

Ben Shewmaker

_______________________________________________ BLUG mailing list BLUG@linuxfan.com http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug


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