Re: [BLUG] Story of reversed roles

just a trick i had to do to stop crashes on my system.  straight from the dev

echo "default_driver=alsa" >> ~/.libao

cheers

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Ana Greavu-Rachow <pawsitiveresults@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, I've got the page bookmarked to take a look later--the clean editing screen, especially on a netbook, looks terrific.

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Lord Drachenblut <lord.drachenblut@gmail.com> wrote:

expanding on my mention of focus writer earlier.  it is a full screen text editor basically.  very light weight written in qt.  the dev is very responsive to emails about issues.

cheers

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Ana Greavu-Rachow <pawsitiveresults@gmail.com> wrote:

At 11, her requirements are fairly basic :-)

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Steven Black <yam655@gmail.com> wrote:

Ana, I mentioned my experience with the folks that make Scrivener.
They have an unsupported beta version for Linux.

If your daughter is writing longer things, it is really ideal. The big
difference between it and a word-processing program is that it is
designed to make it easy to manipulate the structure of a story
without copying and pasting anything. Once things are ready, it gets
compiled in to an RTF file and final styling can be done in your
word-processing program of choice.

They used QT for the Windows version, so it was basically a recompile.
http://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivenerforwindows/ (includes
videos -- it is the same codebase)
http://www.literatureandlatte.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=9150
http://literatureandlatte.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=9154&start=0

I'm using it for NaNoWriMo this year. (Though with my changing job
priorities, I'm in Windows more than not so I'm beta testing the
Windows version.)

Their goal was always to get a Linux-native version, but they hadn't
originally planned to make anything available for Linux until after
they had released the Windows version. There was sufficient demand for
a Linux version and there were some issues getting it to work in Wine.
(Bringing it back to Wine.)

Cheers,
Steven Black

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Ana Greavu-Rachow
<pawsitiveresults@gmail.com> wrote:
> LOL!
> Husband  has been teaching stepdaughter to play chess.... "Wow! There are
> ALL THESE CHESS GAMES on here, Dad!"
> She also likes to write stories...and I've got OOo on her Dad's Windows
> machine, so she's totally accustomed to using that instead of a Microsoft
> product. Her little hands are really the ideal size for a tiny little
> netbook keyboard, and, as I said, she's just really quickly taken to it.
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:
>>
>>  Hi Ana. Do you have a shovel? I need to dig myself out of this hole
>> I've gotten into. ;-)
>>
>>  I'm happy to see that you've had lots of success converting people.
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 03:28:17PM GMT, Ana Greavu-Rachow
>> [pawsitiveresults@gmail.com] said the following:
>> > I've got my husband using a Linux netbook these days, and my 11-year-old
>> > stepdaughter is constantly asking to borrow it...I gave her an older
>> > Mac,
>> > that she pretty much refused to learn to use, but she's doing MUCH
>> > better
>> > with Linux...
>> >
>> > --
>> > Ana Greavu-Rachow
>> > UAg-I Thunderpaws Blackheart MX MXJ PD1 PJ3 PS2 PR2 PK2 CL4 "Jett"
>> > UAg-I Norwood's Linux Hypervisor AX OAJ JHD AD AG AJ SR CL2 CL3-RSF
>> > "Xen"
>> >
>> > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > >  I saw an interesting thing happen on Saturday at PC Max.
>> > >
>> > >  While in there looking for wireless bridging equipment, I overheard a
>> > > conversation between two customers, a mother and what I assume was her
>> > > teenage son, talking to the salesman about Linux. The interesting
>> > > thing
>> > > is that the mother was actually trying to convince her son that Linux
>> > > was good and he was the one being skeptical, making an excuse about it
>> > > possibly not running many games.  Being the geek I am, I suddenly felt
>> > > and uncontrollable urge to become a 12 year old kid in a computer
>> > > store
>> > > and found myself interjecting that it does play lots of games using
>> > > Wine
>> > > and pointed out that probably half the games that you see on the
>> > > shelves
>> > > would actually fully install and run under Wine these days.  It at
>> > > least
>> > > seemed to debunk a myth for him a little bit.
>> > >
>> > >  I'm not saying that it was unusual for a woman to be advocating
>> > > Linux,
>> > > or perhaps even a mother, its just that you don't see it happen often
>> > > or
>> > > even hear of it happening often. Anyways, thought it was an
>> > > interesting
>> > > thing to share.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Mark Krenz
>> > > Bloomington Linux Users Group
>> > > http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > BLUG mailing list
>> > > BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> > > http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>> > >
>>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > BLUG mailing list
>> > BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> > http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mark Krenz
>> Bloomington Linux Users Group
>> http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
>> _______________________________________________
>> BLUG mailing list
>> BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>
>
>
> --
> Ana Greavu-Rachow
> UAg-I Thunderpaws Blackheart MX MXJ PD1 PJ3 PS2 PR2 PK2 CL4 "Jett"
> UAg-I Norwood's Linux Hypervisor AX OAJ JHD AD AG AJ SR CL2 CL3-RSF "Xen"
>
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>
>

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

--

Ana Greavu-Rachow
UAg-I Thunderpaws Blackheart MX MXJ PD1 PJ3 PS2 PR2 PK2 CL4 "Jett"
UAg-I Norwood's Linux Hypervisor AX OAJ JHD AD AG AJ SR CL2 CL3-RSF "Xen"

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

--
Mettle not in the Ways of dragons for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

--
Ana Greavu-Rachow
UAg-I Thunderpaws Blackheart MX MXJ PD1 PJ3 PS2 PR2 PK2 CL4 "Jett"
UAg-I Norwood's Linux Hypervisor AX OAJ JHD AD AG AJ SR CL2 CL3-RSF "Xen"

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

--
Mettle not in the Ways of dragons for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup

Re: [BLUG] Story of reversed roles

Yes, I've got the page bookmarked to take a look later--the clean editing screen, especially on a netbook, looks terrific.

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Lord Drachenblut <lord.drachenblut@gmail.com> wrote:

expanding on my mention of focus writer earlier.  it is a full screen text editor basically.  very light weight written in qt.  the dev is very responsive to emails about issues.

cheers

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Ana Greavu-Rachow <pawsitiveresults@gmail.com> wrote:

At 11, her requirements are fairly basic :-)

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Steven Black <yam655@gmail.com> wrote:

Ana, I mentioned my experience with the folks that make Scrivener.
They have an unsupported beta version for Linux.

If your daughter is writing longer things, it is really ideal. The big
difference between it and a word-processing program is that it is
designed to make it easy to manipulate the structure of a story
without copying and pasting anything. Once things are ready, it gets
compiled in to an RTF file and final styling can be done in your
word-processing program of choice.

They used QT for the Windows version, so it was basically a recompile.
http://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivenerforwindows/ (includes
videos -- it is the same codebase)
http://www.literatureandlatte.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=9150
http://literatureandlatte.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=9154&start=0

I'm using it for NaNoWriMo this year. (Though with my changing job
priorities, I'm in Windows more than not so I'm beta testing the
Windows version.)

Their goal was always to get a Linux-native version, but they hadn't
originally planned to make anything available for Linux until after
they had released the Windows version. There was sufficient demand for
a Linux version and there were some issues getting it to work in Wine.
(Bringing it back to Wine.)

Cheers,
Steven Black

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Ana Greavu-Rachow
<pawsitiveresults@gmail.com> wrote:
> LOL!
> Husband  has been teaching stepdaughter to play chess.... "Wow! There are
> ALL THESE CHESS GAMES on here, Dad!"
> She also likes to write stories...and I've got OOo on her Dad's Windows
> machine, so she's totally accustomed to using that instead of a Microsoft
> product. Her little hands are really the ideal size for a tiny little
> netbook keyboard, and, as I said, she's just really quickly taken to it.
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:
>>
>>  Hi Ana. Do you have a shovel? I need to dig myself out of this hole
>> I've gotten into. ;-)
>>
>>  I'm happy to see that you've had lots of success converting people.
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 03:28:17PM GMT, Ana Greavu-Rachow
>> [pawsitiveresults@gmail.com] said the following:
>> > I've got my husband using a Linux netbook these days, and my 11-year-old
>> > stepdaughter is constantly asking to borrow it...I gave her an older
>> > Mac,
>> > that she pretty much refused to learn to use, but she's doing MUCH
>> > better
>> > with Linux...
>> >
>> > --
>> > Ana Greavu-Rachow
>> > UAg-I Thunderpaws Blackheart MX MXJ PD1 PJ3 PS2 PR2 PK2 CL4 "Jett"
>> > UAg-I Norwood's Linux Hypervisor AX OAJ JHD AD AG AJ SR CL2 CL3-RSF
>> > "Xen"
>> >
>> > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > >  I saw an interesting thing happen on Saturday at PC Max.
>> > >
>> > >  While in there looking for wireless bridging equipment, I overheard a
>> > > conversation between two customers, a mother and what I assume was her
>> > > teenage son, talking to the salesman about Linux. The interesting
>> > > thing
>> > > is that the mother was actually trying to convince her son that Linux
>> > > was good and he was the one being skeptical, making an excuse about it
>> > > possibly not running many games.  Being the geek I am, I suddenly felt
>> > > and uncontrollable urge to become a 12 year old kid in a computer
>> > > store
>> > > and found myself interjecting that it does play lots of games using
>> > > Wine
>> > > and pointed out that probably half the games that you see on the
>> > > shelves
>> > > would actually fully install and run under Wine these days.  It at
>> > > least
>> > > seemed to debunk a myth for him a little bit.
>> > >
>> > >  I'm not saying that it was unusual for a woman to be advocating
>> > > Linux,
>> > > or perhaps even a mother, its just that you don't see it happen often
>> > > or
>> > > even hear of it happening often. Anyways, thought it was an
>> > > interesting
>> > > thing to share.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Mark Krenz
>> > > Bloomington Linux Users Group
>> > > http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > BLUG mailing list
>> > > BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> > > http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>> > >
>>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > BLUG mailing list
>> > BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> > http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mark Krenz
>> Bloomington Linux Users Group
>> http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
>> _______________________________________________
>> BLUG mailing list
>> BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>
>
>
> --
> Ana Greavu-Rachow
> UAg-I Thunderpaws Blackheart MX MXJ PD1 PJ3 PS2 PR2 PK2 CL4 "Jett"
> UAg-I Norwood's Linux Hypervisor AX OAJ JHD AD AG AJ SR CL2 CL3-RSF "Xen"
>
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>
>

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

--

Ana Greavu-Rachow
UAg-I Thunderpaws Blackheart MX MXJ PD1 PJ3 PS2 PR2 PK2 CL4 "Jett"
UAg-I Norwood's Linux Hypervisor AX OAJ JHD AD AG AJ SR CL2 CL3-RSF "Xen"

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

--
Mettle not in the Ways of dragons for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

--
Ana Greavu-Rachow
UAg-I Thunderpaws Blackheart MX MXJ PD1 PJ3 PS2 PR2 PK2 CL4 "Jett"
UAg-I Norwood's Linux Hypervisor AX OAJ JHD AD AG AJ SR CL2 CL3-RSF "Xen"

Re: [BLUG] Story of reversed roles

expanding on my mention of focus writer earlier.  it is a full screen text editor basically.  very light weight written in qt.  the dev is very responsive to emails about issues.

cheers

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Ana Greavu-Rachow <pawsitiveresults@gmail.com> wrote:

At 11, her requirements are fairly basic :-)

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Steven Black <yam655@gmail.com> wrote:

Ana, I mentioned my experience with the folks that make Scrivener.
They have an unsupported beta version for Linux.

If your daughter is writing longer things, it is really ideal. The big
difference between it and a word-processing program is that it is
designed to make it easy to manipulate the structure of a story
without copying and pasting anything. Once things are ready, it gets
compiled in to an RTF file and final styling can be done in your
word-processing program of choice.

They used QT for the Windows version, so it was basically a recompile.
http://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivenerforwindows/ (includes
videos -- it is the same codebase)
http://www.literatureandlatte.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=9150
http://literatureandlatte.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=9154&start=0

I'm using it for NaNoWriMo this year. (Though with my changing job
priorities, I'm in Windows more than not so I'm beta testing the
Windows version.)

Their goal was always to get a Linux-native version, but they hadn't
originally planned to make anything available for Linux until after
they had released the Windows version. There was sufficient demand for
a Linux version and there were some issues getting it to work in Wine.
(Bringing it back to Wine.)

Cheers,
Steven Black

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Ana Greavu-Rachow
<pawsitiveresults@gmail.com> wrote:
> LOL!
> Husband  has been teaching stepdaughter to play chess.... "Wow! There are
> ALL THESE CHESS GAMES on here, Dad!"
> She also likes to write stories...and I've got OOo on her Dad's Windows
> machine, so she's totally accustomed to using that instead of a Microsoft
> product. Her little hands are really the ideal size for a tiny little
> netbook keyboard, and, as I said, she's just really quickly taken to it.
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:
>>
>>  Hi Ana. Do you have a shovel? I need to dig myself out of this hole
>> I've gotten into. ;-)
>>
>>  I'm happy to see that you've had lots of success converting people.
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 03:28:17PM GMT, Ana Greavu-Rachow
>> [pawsitiveresults@gmail.com] said the following:
>> > I've got my husband using a Linux netbook these days, and my 11-year-old
>> > stepdaughter is constantly asking to borrow it...I gave her an older
>> > Mac,
>> > that she pretty much refused to learn to use, but she's doing MUCH
>> > better
>> > with Linux...
>> >
>> > --
>> > Ana Greavu-Rachow
>> > UAg-I Thunderpaws Blackheart MX MXJ PD1 PJ3 PS2 PR2 PK2 CL4 "Jett"
>> > UAg-I Norwood's Linux Hypervisor AX OAJ JHD AD AG AJ SR CL2 CL3-RSF
>> > "Xen"
>> >
>> > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > >  I saw an interesting thing happen on Saturday at PC Max.
>> > >
>> > >  While in there looking for wireless bridging equipment, I overheard a
>> > > conversation between two customers, a mother and what I assume was her
>> > > teenage son, talking to the salesman about Linux. The interesting
>> > > thing
>> > > is that the mother was actually trying to convince her son that Linux
>> > > was good and he was the one being skeptical, making an excuse about it
>> > > possibly not running many games.  Being the geek I am, I suddenly felt
>> > > and uncontrollable urge to become a 12 year old kid in a computer
>> > > store
>> > > and found myself interjecting that it does play lots of games using
>> > > Wine
>> > > and pointed out that probably half the games that you see on the
>> > > shelves
>> > > would actually fully install and run under Wine these days.  It at
>> > > least
>> > > seemed to debunk a myth for him a little bit.
>> > >
>> > >  I'm not saying that it was unusual for a woman to be advocating
>> > > Linux,
>> > > or perhaps even a mother, its just that you don't see it happen often
>> > > or
>> > > even hear of it happening often. Anyways, thought it was an
>> > > interesting
>> > > thing to share.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Mark Krenz
>> > > Bloomington Linux Users Group
>> > > http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > BLUG mailing list
>> > > BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> > > http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>> > >
>>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > BLUG mailing list
>> > BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> > http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mark Krenz
>> Bloomington Linux Users Group
>> http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
>> _______________________________________________
>> BLUG mailing list
>> BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>
>
>
> --
> Ana Greavu-Rachow
> UAg-I Thunderpaws Blackheart MX MXJ PD1 PJ3 PS2 PR2 PK2 CL4 "Jett"
> UAg-I Norwood's Linux Hypervisor AX OAJ JHD AD AG AJ SR CL2 CL3-RSF "Xen"
>
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>
>

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

--

Ana Greavu-Rachow
UAg-I Thunderpaws Blackheart MX MXJ PD1 PJ3 PS2 PR2 PK2 CL4 "Jett"
UAg-I Norwood's Linux Hypervisor AX OAJ JHD AD AG AJ SR CL2 CL3-RSF "Xen"

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

--
Mettle not in the Ways of dragons for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup

Re: [BLUG] Story of reversed roles

At 11, her requirements are fairly basic :-)

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Steven Black <yam655@gmail.com> wrote:

Ana, I mentioned my experience with the folks that make Scrivener.
They have an unsupported beta version for Linux.

If your daughter is writing longer things, it is really ideal. The big
difference between it and a word-processing program is that it is
designed to make it easy to manipulate the structure of a story
without copying and pasting anything. Once things are ready, it gets
compiled in to an RTF file and final styling can be done in your
word-processing program of choice.

They used QT for the Windows version, so it was basically a recompile.
http://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivenerforwindows/ (includes
videos -- it is the same codebase)
http://www.literatureandlatte.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=9150
http://literatureandlatte.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=9154&start=0

I'm using it for NaNoWriMo this year. (Though with my changing job
priorities, I'm in Windows more than not so I'm beta testing the
Windows version.)

Their goal was always to get a Linux-native version, but they hadn't
originally planned to make anything available for Linux until after
they had released the Windows version. There was sufficient demand for
a Linux version and there were some issues getting it to work in Wine.
(Bringing it back to Wine.)

Cheers,
Steven Black

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Ana Greavu-Rachow
<pawsitiveresults@gmail.com> wrote:
> LOL!
> Husband  has been teaching stepdaughter to play chess.... "Wow! There are
> ALL THESE CHESS GAMES on here, Dad!"
> She also likes to write stories...and I've got OOo on her Dad's Windows
> machine, so she's totally accustomed to using that instead of a Microsoft
> product. Her little hands are really the ideal size for a tiny little
> netbook keyboard, and, as I said, she's just really quickly taken to it.
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:
>>
>>  Hi Ana. Do you have a shovel? I need to dig myself out of this hole
>> I've gotten into. ;-)
>>
>>  I'm happy to see that you've had lots of success converting people.
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 03:28:17PM GMT, Ana Greavu-Rachow
>> [pawsitiveresults@gmail.com] said the following:
>> > I've got my husband using a Linux netbook these days, and my 11-year-old
>> > stepdaughter is constantly asking to borrow it...I gave her an older
>> > Mac,
>> > that she pretty much refused to learn to use, but she's doing MUCH
>> > better
>> > with Linux...
>> >
>> > --
>> > Ana Greavu-Rachow
>> > UAg-I Thunderpaws Blackheart MX MXJ PD1 PJ3 PS2 PR2 PK2 CL4 "Jett"
>> > UAg-I Norwood's Linux Hypervisor AX OAJ JHD AD AG AJ SR CL2 CL3-RSF
>> > "Xen"
>> >
>> > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > >  I saw an interesting thing happen on Saturday at PC Max.
>> > >
>> > >  While in there looking for wireless bridging equipment, I overheard a
>> > > conversation between two customers, a mother and what I assume was her
>> > > teenage son, talking to the salesman about Linux. The interesting
>> > > thing
>> > > is that the mother was actually trying to convince her son that Linux
>> > > was good and he was the one being skeptical, making an excuse about it
>> > > possibly not running many games.  Being the geek I am, I suddenly felt
>> > > and uncontrollable urge to become a 12 year old kid in a computer
>> > > store
>> > > and found myself interjecting that it does play lots of games using
>> > > Wine
>> > > and pointed out that probably half the games that you see on the
>> > > shelves
>> > > would actually fully install and run under Wine these days.  It at
>> > > least
>> > > seemed to debunk a myth for him a little bit.
>> > >
>> > >  I'm not saying that it was unusual for a woman to be advocating
>> > > Linux,
>> > > or perhaps even a mother, its just that you don't see it happen often
>> > > or
>> > > even hear of it happening often. Anyways, thought it was an
>> > > interesting
>> > > thing to share.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Mark Krenz
>> > > Bloomington Linux Users Group
>> > > http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > BLUG mailing list
>> > > BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> > > http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>> > >
>>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > BLUG mailing list
>> > BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> > http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mark Krenz
>> Bloomington Linux Users Group
>> http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
>> _______________________________________________
>> BLUG mailing list
>> BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>
>
>
> --
> Ana Greavu-Rachow
> UAg-I Thunderpaws Blackheart MX MXJ PD1 PJ3 PS2 PR2 PK2 CL4 "Jett"
> UAg-I Norwood's Linux Hypervisor AX OAJ JHD AD AG AJ SR CL2 CL3-RSF "Xen"
>
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>
>

_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

--
Ana Greavu-Rachow
UAg-I Thunderpaws Blackheart MX MXJ PD1 PJ3 PS2 PR2 PK2 CL4 "Jett"
UAg-I Norwood's Linux Hypervisor AX OAJ JHD AD AG AJ SR CL2 CL3-RSF "Xen"

Re: [BLUG] Story of reversed roles

Ana, I mentioned my experience with the folks that make Scrivener.
They have an unsupported beta version for Linux.

If your daughter is writing longer things, it is really ideal. The big
difference between it and a word-processing program is that it is
designed to make it easy to manipulate the structure of a story
without copying and pasting anything. Once things are ready, it gets
compiled in to an RTF file and final styling can be done in your
word-processing program of choice.

They used QT for the Windows version, so it was basically a recompile.
http://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivenerforwindows/ (includes
videos -- it is the same codebase)
http://www.literatureandlatte.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=9150
http://literatureandlatte.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=9154&start=0

I'm using it for NaNoWriMo this year. (Though with my changing job
priorities, I'm in Windows more than not so I'm beta testing the
Windows version.)

Their goal was always to get a Linux-native version, but they hadn't
originally planned to make anything available for Linux until after
they had released the Windows version. There was sufficient demand for
a Linux version and there were some issues getting it to work in Wine.
(Bringing it back to Wine.)

Cheers,
Steven Black

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Ana Greavu-Rachow
<pawsitiveresults@gmail.com> wrote:
> LOL!
> Husband  has been teaching stepdaughter to play chess.... "Wow! There are
> ALL THESE CHESS GAMES on here, Dad!"
> She also likes to write stories...and I've got OOo on her Dad's Windows
> machine, so she's totally accustomed to using that instead of a Microsoft
> product. Her little hands are really the ideal size for a tiny little
> netbook keyboard, and, as I said, she's just really quickly taken to it.
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:
>>
>>  Hi Ana. Do you have a shovel? I need to dig myself out of this hole
>> I've gotten into. ;-)
>>
>>  I'm happy to see that you've had lots of success converting people.
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 03:28:17PM GMT, Ana Greavu-Rachow
>> [pawsitiveresults@gmail.com] said the following:
>> > I've got my husband using a Linux netbook these days, and my 11-year-old
>> > stepdaughter is constantly asking to borrow it...I gave her an older
>> > Mac,
>> > that she pretty much refused to learn to use, but she's doing MUCH
>> > better
>> > with Linux...
>> >
>> > --
>> > Ana Greavu-Rachow
>> > UAg-I Thunderpaws Blackheart MX MXJ PD1 PJ3 PS2 PR2 PK2 CL4 "Jett"
>> > UAg-I Norwood's Linux Hypervisor AX OAJ JHD AD AG AJ SR CL2 CL3-RSF
>> > "Xen"
>> >
>> > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > >  I saw an interesting thing happen on Saturday at PC Max.
>> > >
>> > >  While in there looking for wireless bridging equipment, I overheard a
>> > > conversation between two customers, a mother and what I assume was her
>> > > teenage son, talking to the salesman about Linux. The interesting
>> > > thing
>> > > is that the mother was actually trying to convince her son that Linux
>> > > was good and he was the one being skeptical, making an excuse about it
>> > > possibly not running many games.  Being the geek I am, I suddenly felt
>> > > and uncontrollable urge to become a 12 year old kid in a computer
>> > > store
>> > > and found myself interjecting that it does play lots of games using
>> > > Wine
>> > > and pointed out that probably half the games that you see on the
>> > > shelves
>> > > would actually fully install and run under Wine these days.  It at
>> > > least
>> > > seemed to debunk a myth for him a little bit.
>> > >
>> > >  I'm not saying that it was unusual for a woman to be advocating
>> > > Linux,
>> > > or perhaps even a mother, its just that you don't see it happen often
>> > > or
>> > > even hear of it happening often. Anyways, thought it was an
>> > > interesting
>> > > thing to share.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Mark Krenz
>> > > Bloomington Linux Users Group
>> > > http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > BLUG mailing list
>> > > BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> > > http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>> > >
>>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > BLUG mailing list
>> > BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> > http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mark Krenz
>> Bloomington Linux Users Group
>> http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
>> _______________________________________________
>> BLUG mailing list
>> BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>
>
>
> --
> Ana Greavu-Rachow
> UAg-I Thunderpaws Blackheart MX MXJ PD1 PJ3 PS2 PR2 PK2 CL4 "Jett"
> UAg-I Norwood's Linux Hypervisor AX OAJ JHD AD AG AJ SR CL2 CL3-RSF "Xen"
>
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>
>

_______________________________________________
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Re: [BLUG] Story of reversed roles

That's a really funny way to spell "Emacs",  you know.....

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:19 PM, Jeremy L. Gaddis <jlgaddis@gnu.org> wrote:

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 11:04:03AM -0500, Ana Greavu-Rachow wrote:
>    She also likes to write stories...and I've got OOo on her Dad's Windows
>    machine, so she's totally accustomed to using that instead of a Microsoft
>    product. Her little hands are really the ideal size for a tiny little
>    netbook keyboard, and, as I said, she's just really quickly taken to it.

Sounds like a great opportunity to teach her vi.  =)

--
Jeremy L. Gaddis



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--
Ana Greavu-Rachow
UAg-I Thunderpaws Blackheart MX MXJ PD1 PJ3 PS2 PR2 PK2 CL4 "Jett"
UAg-I Norwood's Linux Hypervisor AX OAJ JHD AD AG AJ SR CL2 CL3-RSF "Xen"

Re: [BLUG] Story of reversed roles

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 11:04:03AM -0500, Ana Greavu-Rachow wrote:
> She also likes to write stories...and I've got OOo on her Dad's Windows
> machine, so she's totally accustomed to using that instead of a Microsoft
> product. Her little hands are really the ideal size for a tiny little
> netbook keyboard, and, as I said, she's just really quickly taken to it.

Sounds like a great opportunity to teach her vi. =)

--
Jeremy L. Gaddis

Re: [BLUG] Story of reversed roles

True, but its so much easier than it used to be. Now you litterally
can just click on the setup.exe and it will put a working icon on your
desktop. I recently bought a children's game for my daughter to play on
our HTPC, and it was just that easy. And it wasn't just that game,
seems like several windows programs and games I've tried under wine
recently have "just worked". A few exceptions of course, but I'd say
half work without trouble, which I find truely remarkable.

My daughter enjoys playing several Linux native games as well as using
Tuxpaint and Stellarium and then so far most of the kids games I've
bought for her like Dora, Cailliou and Spongebob all have worked in Wine
pretty well.

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 03:39:57PM GMT, Matt Zink [matthewzin@gmail.com] said the following:
> While it's true that Linux will probably run many games, I don't think most
> people can be bothered to make them work on Linux. If it's not a simple
> "double click on the .exe.", then most people seem go for Windows.

> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
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Re: [BLUG] Story of reversed roles

An application for writing to check out is focuswriter.  Available from gottcode.org/focuswriter  available for linux windows and osx

On Nov 17, 2010 11:04 AM, "Ana Greavu-Rachow" <pawsitiveresults@gmail.com> wrote:
> LOL!
>
> Husband has been teaching stepdaughter to play chess.... "Wow! There are
> ALL THESE CHESS GAMES on here, Dad!"
> She also likes to write stories...and I've got OOo on her Dad's Windows
> machine, so she's totally accustomed to using that instead of a Microsoft
> product. Her little hands are really the ideal size for a tiny little
> netbook keyboard, and, as I said, she's just really quickly taken to it.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Ana. Do you have a shovel? I need to dig myself out of this hole
>> I've gotten into. ;-)
>>
>> I'm happy to see that you've had lots of success converting people.
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 03:28:17PM GMT, Ana Greavu-Rachow [
>> pawsitiveresults@gmail.com] said the following:
>> > I've got my husband using a Linux netbook these days, and my 11-year-old
>> > stepdaughter is constantly asking to borrow it...I gave her an older Mac,
>> > that she pretty much refused to learn to use, but she's doing MUCH better
>> > with Linux...
>> >
>> > --
>> > Ana Greavu-Rachow
>> > UAg-I Thunderpaws Blackheart MX MXJ PD1 PJ3 PS2 PR2 PK2 CL4 "Jett"
>> > UAg-I Norwood's Linux Hypervisor AX OAJ JHD AD AG AJ SR CL2 CL3-RSF "Xen"
>> >
>> > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > > I saw an interesting thing happen on Saturday at PC Max.
>> > >
>> > > While in there looking for wireless bridging equipment, I overheard a
>> > > conversation between two customers, a mother and what I assume was her
>> > > teenage son, talking to the salesman about Linux. The interesting thing
>> > > is that the mother was actually trying to convince her son that Linux
>> > > was good and he was the one being skeptical, making an excuse about it
>> > > possibly not running many games. Being the geek I am, I suddenly felt
>> > > and uncontrollable urge to become a 12 year old kid in a computer store
>> > > and found myself interjecting that it does play lots of games using
>> Wine
>> > > and pointed out that probably half the games that you see on the
>> shelves
>> > > would actually fully install and run under Wine these days. It at
>> least
>> > > seemed to debunk a myth for him a little bit.
>> > >
>> > > I'm not saying that it was unusual for a woman to be advocating Linux,
>> > > or perhaps even a mother, its just that you don't see it happen often
>> or
>> > > even hear of it happening often. Anyways, thought it was an interesting
>> > > thing to share.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Mark Krenz
>> > > Bloomington Linux Users Group
>> > > http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > BLUG mailing list
>> > > BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> > > http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>> > >
>>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > BLUG mailing list
>> > BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> > http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mark Krenz
>> Bloomington Linux Users Group
>> http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
>> _______________________________________________
>> BLUG mailing list
>> BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Ana Greavu-Rachow
> UAg-I Thunderpaws Blackheart MX MXJ PD1 PJ3 PS2 PR2 PK2 CL4 "Jett"
> UAg-I Norwood's Linux Hypervisor AX OAJ JHD AD AG AJ SR CL2 CL3-RSF "Xen"

Re: [BLUG] Story of reversed roles

LOL!

Husband  has been teaching stepdaughter to play chess.... "Wow! There are ALL THESE CHESS GAMES on here, Dad!"

She also likes to write stories...and I've got OOo on her Dad's Windows machine, so she's totally accustomed to using that instead of a Microsoft product. Her little hands are really the ideal size for a tiny little netbook keyboard, and, as I said, she's just really quickly taken to it.

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:

 Hi Ana. Do you have a shovel? I need to dig myself out of this hole
I've gotten into. ;-)

 I'm happy to see that you've had lots of success converting people.

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 03:28:17PM GMT, Ana Greavu-Rachow [pawsitiveresults@gmail.com] said the following:

> I've got my husband using a Linux netbook these days, and my 11-year-old
> stepdaughter is constantly asking to borrow it...I gave her an older Mac,
> that she pretty much refused to learn to use, but she's doing MUCH better
> with Linux...
>
> --
> Ana Greavu-Rachow
> UAg-I Thunderpaws Blackheart MX MXJ PD1 PJ3 PS2 PR2 PK2 CL4 "Jett"
> UAg-I Norwood's Linux Hypervisor AX OAJ JHD AD AG AJ SR CL2 CL3-RSF "Xen"
>
> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:
>
> >
> >  I saw an interesting thing happen on Saturday at PC Max.
> >
> >  While in there looking for wireless bridging equipment, I overheard a
> > conversation between two customers, a mother and what I assume was her
> > teenage son, talking to the salesman about Linux. The interesting thing
> > is that the mother was actually trying to convince her son that Linux
> > was good and he was the one being skeptical, making an excuse about it
> > possibly not running many games.  Being the geek I am, I suddenly felt
> > and uncontrollable urge to become a 12 year old kid in a computer store
> > and found myself interjecting that it does play lots of games using Wine
> > and pointed out that probably half the games that you see on the shelves
> > would actually fully install and run under Wine these days.  It at least
> > seemed to debunk a myth for him a little bit.
> >
> >  I'm not saying that it was unusual for a woman to be advocating Linux,
> > or perhaps even a mother, its just that you don't see it happen often or
> > even hear of it happening often. Anyways, thought it was an interesting
> > thing to share.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Mark Krenz
> > Bloomington Linux Users Group
> > http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
> > _______________________________________________
> > BLUG mailing list
> > BLUG@linuxfan.com
> > http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
> >

> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

--

Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

--
Ana Greavu-Rachow
UAg-I Thunderpaws Blackheart MX MXJ PD1 PJ3 PS2 PR2 PK2 CL4 "Jett"
UAg-I Norwood's Linux Hypervisor AX OAJ JHD AD AG AJ SR CL2 CL3-RSF "Xen"

Re: [BLUG] Story of reversed roles

Hi Ana. Do you have a shovel? I need to dig myself out of this hole
I've gotten into. ;-)

I'm happy to see that you've had lots of success converting people.

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 03:28:17PM GMT, Ana Greavu-Rachow [pawsitiveresults@gmail.com] said the following:
> I've got my husband using a Linux netbook these days, and my 11-year-old
> stepdaughter is constantly asking to borrow it...I gave her an older Mac,
> that she pretty much refused to learn to use, but she's doing MUCH better
> with Linux...
>
> --
> Ana Greavu-Rachow
> UAg-I Thunderpaws Blackheart MX MXJ PD1 PJ3 PS2 PR2 PK2 CL4 "Jett"
> UAg-I Norwood's Linux Hypervisor AX OAJ JHD AD AG AJ SR CL2 CL3-RSF "Xen"
>
> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:
>
> >
> > I saw an interesting thing happen on Saturday at PC Max.
> >
> > While in there looking for wireless bridging equipment, I overheard a
> > conversation between two customers, a mother and what I assume was her
> > teenage son, talking to the salesman about Linux. The interesting thing
> > is that the mother was actually trying to convince her son that Linux
> > was good and he was the one being skeptical, making an excuse about it
> > possibly not running many games. Being the geek I am, I suddenly felt
> > and uncontrollable urge to become a 12 year old kid in a computer store
> > and found myself interjecting that it does play lots of games using Wine
> > and pointed out that probably half the games that you see on the shelves
> > would actually fully install and run under Wine these days. It at least
> > seemed to debunk a myth for him a little bit.
> >
> > I'm not saying that it was unusual for a woman to be advocating Linux,
> > or perhaps even a mother, its just that you don't see it happen often or
> > even hear of it happening often. Anyways, thought it was an interesting
> > thing to share.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Mark Krenz
> > Bloomington Linux Users Group
> > http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
> > _______________________________________________
> > BLUG mailing list
> > BLUG@linuxfan.com
> > http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
> >

> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Re: [BLUG] Story of reversed roles

Doesn't surprise me. The kid wants to play games. The mom is tired of
paying to have it deloused.

Mark Krenz wrote:
> I saw an interesting thing happen on Saturday at PC Max.
>
> While in there looking for wireless bridging equipment, I overheard a
> conversation between two customers, a mother and what I assume was her
> teenage son, talking to the salesman about Linux. The interesting thing
> is that the mother was actually trying to convince her son that Linux
> was good and he was the one being skeptical, making an excuse about it
> possibly not running many games. Being the geek I am, I suddenly felt
> and uncontrollable urge to become a 12 year old kid in a computer store
> and found myself interjecting that it does play lots of games using Wine
> and pointed out that probably half the games that you see on the shelves
> would actually fully install and run under Wine these days. It at least
> seemed to debunk a myth for him a little bit.
>
> I'm not saying that it was unusual for a woman to be advocating Linux,
> or perhaps even a mother, its just that you don't see it happen often or
> even hear of it happening often. Anyways, thought it was an interesting
> thing to share.
>
>
>

--
Mark Warner
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
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Re: [BLUG] Story of reversed roles

While it's true that Linux will probably run many games, I don't think most people can be bothered to make them work on Linux.  If it's not a simple "double click on the .exe.", then most people seem go for Windows.  

Re: [BLUG] Story of reversed roles

Sadly, I've had no luck getting Half Life (I or II) running on my Ubuntu machine.  I probably just need to spend more time with it.

Re: [BLUG] Story of reversed roles

I've got my husband using a Linux netbook these days, and my 11-year-old stepdaughter is constantly asking to borrow it...I gave her an older Mac, that she pretty much refused to learn to use, but she's doing MUCH better with Linux...

-- 
Ana Greavu-Rachow
UAg-I Thunderpaws Blackheart MX MXJ PD1 PJ3 PS2 PR2 PK2 CL4 "Jett"
UAg-I Norwood's Linux Hypervisor AX OAJ JHD AD AG AJ SR CL2 CL3-RSF "Xen"

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Mark Krenz <mark@slugbug.org> wrote:

 I saw an interesting thing happen on Saturday at PC Max.

 While in there looking for wireless bridging equipment, I overheard a
conversation between two customers, a mother and what I assume was her
teenage son, talking to the salesman about Linux. The interesting thing
is that the mother was actually trying to convince her son that Linux
was good and he was the one being skeptical, making an excuse about it
possibly not running many games.  Being the geek I am, I suddenly felt
and uncontrollable urge to become a 12 year old kid in a computer store
and found myself interjecting that it does play lots of games using Wine
and pointed out that probably half the games that you see on the shelves
would actually fully install and run under Wine these days.  It at least
seemed to debunk a myth for him a little bit.

 I'm not saying that it was unusual for a woman to be advocating Linux,
or perhaps even a mother, its just that you don't see it happen often or
even hear of it happening often. Anyways, thought it was an interesting
thing to share.



--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

[BLUG] Story of reversed roles

I saw an interesting thing happen on Saturday at PC Max.

While in there looking for wireless bridging equipment, I overheard a
conversation between two customers, a mother and what I assume was her
teenage son, talking to the salesman about Linux. The interesting thing
is that the mother was actually trying to convince her son that Linux
was good and he was the one being skeptical, making an excuse about it
possibly not running many games. Being the geek I am, I suddenly felt
and uncontrollable urge to become a 12 year old kid in a computer store
and found myself interjecting that it does play lots of games using Wine
and pointed out that probably half the games that you see on the shelves
would actually fully install and run under Wine these days. It at least
seemed to debunk a myth for him a little bit.

I'm not saying that it was unusual for a woman to be advocating Linux,
or perhaps even a mother, its just that you don't see it happen often or
even hear of it happening often. Anyways, thought it was an interesting
thing to share.

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
_______________________________________________
BLUG mailing list
BLUG@linuxfan.com
http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug

Re: [BLUG] How cheap can you build a box? - redux

On 9 November 2010 11:31, Thomas Smith <tgs@resc.net> wrote:
> Hiya,
>> >From Mark Warner
>>>You can buy pallets of old P-IIIs for next to nothing on eBay.
>>
>> Wow.  This was a great tip.  The most questionable part of that
>> statement, actually, is the P-III part.  I found P-IVs much easier,
>> and they were still amazingly cheap.  Apparently the search term to
>> use is "LOT" as in "LOT OF 10 pentium 4 2.8 GHZ P4, 512 DDR, CDROM"
>> (starting bid $870, 0 bids so far, ends tomorrow evening).  Or "Lot of
>> 34 Dell Optiplex GX260 PC Computer P4 40GB" (Buy it now
>> $1,359.96.. that's $40 each!! shipping will probably make it a bit more,
>> but still).  Mostly I'm averse to used hardware because we want the
>> machines to be reliable, nearly identical, and require little labor to
>> set up.  Buying lots of nearly identical hardware like this should
>> address those concerns.  And the prices are amazing.
>>
>
> One more place to look for these is IU Salvage.  From time to time
> (every couple months) they have an auction, which typically includes
> palettes of desktops and monitors.  Their prices for individual
> computers aren't very good, but it might be a different story for a
> lot of 10.  You could save on shipping :-)

There're actually a couple dozen pallets of servers (including really
cool SGI machines) and non-servers (some Dells, Apples, and the
like--and not super-old-generation stuff either) at the IU surplus
store *right now*, which they're accepting closed bids on until
*Thursday*. If you want to have a look at what they have and maybe
place some bids, I'd suggest heading over there tomorrow (Wednesday).

--
Jonathan

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Re: [BLUG] How cheap can you build a box? - redux

On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 12:58 PM, David Ernst <david.ernst@davidernst.net> wrote:
>>On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Simón Ruiz <simon.a.ruiz@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> For lagniappe, I'm still trying to train the librarians to "just
>>> reboot the thing; if it doesn't work again, leave it alone for a while
>>> and try rebooting it again later", a phrase which would have saved
>>> them every single support call relating to those things since we put
>>> them in.
>>
>>Just to clarify, this is because the only problems they've experienced
>>were "external" in nature, with the network between the card catalog
>>workstation and the server, and so no actual "support" has ever needed
>>to be performed on these machines other than rebooting them after
>>whatever network issues were cleared up.
>
> Thanks for clarifying.  I was like "what, are they overheating?"

Yeah, I realized that made no sense out of the context of my experience.

> Do you happen to know when these boxes were?  I'm interested.

They're MSI WindBOXes...there are newer versions of the box, II & III,
but we got the first run of them.

For what its worth, our first WindBOX has Ubuntu 7.10 on it, so it's
probably over 2 years old now, younger than 3.

> David

Simón

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Re: [BLUG] How cheap can you build a box? - redux

>On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Simón Ruiz <simon.a.ruiz@gmail.com> wrote:
>> For lagniappe, I'm still trying to train the librarians to "just
>> reboot the thing; if it doesn't work again, leave it alone for a while
>> and try rebooting it again later", a phrase which would have saved
>> them every single support call relating to those things since we put
>> them in.
>
>Just to clarify, this is because the only problems they've experienced
>were "external" in nature, with the network between the card catalog
>workstation and the server, and so no actual "support" has ever needed
>to be performed on these machines other than rebooting them after
>whatever network issues were cleared up.

Thanks for clarifying. I was like "what, are they overheating?"

Do you happen to know when these boxes were? I'm interested.

David
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Re: [BLUG] How cheap can you build a box? - redux

On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Simón Ruiz <simon.a.ruiz@gmail.com> wrote:
> For lagniappe, I'm still trying to train the librarians to "just
> reboot the thing; if it doesn't work again, leave it alone for a while
> and try rebooting it again later", a phrase which would have saved
> them every single support call relating to those things since we put
> them in.

Just to clarify, this is because the only problems they've experienced
were "external" in nature, with the network between the card catalog
workstation and the server, and so no actual "support" has ever needed
to be performed on these machines other than rebooting them after
whatever network issues were cleared up.

Simón

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Re: [BLUG] How cheap can you build a box? - redux

On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Jose Ignacio Lucas Lledo
<ignasilucas@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Don't forget to take power consumption into consideration for
>> budgetary and/or environmental concerns, though. Old PIV desktops will
>> probably suck a lot of power to give you the same performance as that
>> Android tablet, plus the power to run a monitor. (And the expense of a
>> monitor; unless explicitly expressed, I doubt those LOTS come with
>> display devices.)
>
> About environmental concerns, I would say that reusing old stuff that
> would otherwise be trash, saves many more CO2 emissions than what is
> needed to build a new machine. At least, that's the case for cars.
>
> http://www.letra.org/spip/article.php?id_article=3567

That is a good point, and part of the reason I continue to spend my
time refreshing (Linuxizing, for one) and giving away old computers to
people who need computers.

In an institutional setting, though, if there are going to be a lot of
them, and particularly if they're intended to be left on, it's worth
noting the power consumption difference. The reliability can also be
an issue—presenting you with a time vs. money balancing
act—particularly if they'd be used in mission-critical ways, and
particularly if you don't have much time to spend troubleshooting and
replacing dying machines.

We took some of our old computers (Interestingly, Optiplex GX260s,
like the ones in that auction), and built Linux-based card catalog
computers for our libraries (they just bought up to OpenBox, or
something, and run Firefox in full-screen mode on the card catalog
website). Hey, we thought, we'd be getting some extra miles out of
machines that are too slow to use on desks or in labs, and it's not
like it's mission-critical so if they die from time to time, who
cares?

The librarians loved them, and they worked beautifully...most of the
time. The only problem with these machines were that they *became*
mission-critical, and the librarians started expecting these things up
and running all the time. But...sometimes the hard disk would die...or
the processor fan would go haywire...or it would just mysteriously
stop wanting to get through POST: in short, they were behaving like
old, dying computers. While we had plenty of backup parts to keep
fixing them, it kept taking our time (and sometimes in response to
great urgency on the librarian's behalf) to maintain them, not to
mention gas driving to the other campus, etc.

We decided to replace them, and bought three new tiny form factor
boxes (pretty much netbook motherboards crammed into aluminum shells)
that could be VESA mounted onto the back of some LCD monitors we
already had. For one thing, they only consume in the neighborhood of
12 watts, maybe 10% of what the old computers pulled. For another,
they're entirely solid-state (well, we bought solid state drives for
them, so now they are), and so with no moving parts, and the entire
back side of the thing as a heat sink, they're silent and cool. Also,
the card catalog station—unless you peek behind it—just like an LCD
monitor with a keyboard and mouse connected to it; the actual computer
part of it has no desk footprint.

For lagniappe, I'm still trying to train the librarians to "just
reboot the thing; if it doesn't work again, leave it alone for a while
and try rebooting it again later", a phrase which would have saved
them every single support call relating to those things since we put
them in.

Just a story; call it a cautionary tale.

Simón

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Re: [BLUG] How cheap can you build a box? - redux

Hiya,
> >From Mark Warner
>>You can buy pallets of old P-IIIs for next to nothing on eBay.
>
> Wow.  This was a great tip.  The most questionable part of that
> statement, actually, is the P-III part.  I found P-IVs much easier,
> and they were still amazingly cheap.  Apparently the search term to
> use is "LOT" as in "LOT OF 10 pentium 4 2.8 GHZ P4, 512 DDR, CDROM"
> (starting bid $870, 0 bids so far, ends tomorrow evening).  Or "Lot of
> 34 Dell Optiplex GX260 PC Computer P4 40GB" (Buy it now
> $1,359.96.. that's $40 each!! shipping will probably make it a bit more,
> but still).  Mostly I'm averse to used hardware because we want the
> machines to be reliable, nearly identical, and require little labor to
> set up.  Buying lots of nearly identical hardware like this should
> address those concerns.  And the prices are amazing.
>

One more place to look for these is IU Salvage. From time to time
(every couple months) they have an auction, which typically includes
palettes of desktops and monitors. Their prices for individual
computers aren't very good, but it might be a different story for a
lot of 10. You could save on shipping :-)

-Thomas

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Re: [BLUG] How cheap can you build a box? - redux

David Ernst wrote:

>>From Mark Warner
>> You can buy pallets of old P-IIIs for next to nothing on eBay.
>
> Wow. This was a great tip. The most questionable part of that
> statement, actually, is the P-III part. I found P-IVs much easier,
> and they were still amazingly cheap. Apparently the search term to
> use is "LOT" as in "LOT OF 10 pentium 4 2.8 GHZ P4, 512 DDR, CDROM"
> (starting bid $870, 0 bids so far, ends tomorrow evening). Or "Lot of
> 34 Dell Optiplex GX260 PC Computer P4 40GB" (Buy it now
> $1,359.96.. that's $40 each!! shipping will probably make it a bit more,
> but still). Mostly I'm averse to used hardware because we want the
> machines to be reliable, nearly identical, and require little labor to
> set up. Buying lots of nearly identical hardware like this should
> address those concerns. And the prices are amazing.

Glad that helped. Common carrier freight on that should be in the
$150-250 range, depending on weight, volume, and distance, so it might
add $8 to the unit cost. If it were me, I'd count on 3-4 being DOA or
otherwise needing some TLC. If you got 30 good ones for around $1600,
you'd be looking at roughly $55 each. Not too shabby. Set one up, image
rest of the drives, and off you go.

Sounds like it would be a fun project. Then again, I'm kind of a
hardware tinkerer. Comes from cobbling together old junk to make
something usable -- there's some satisfaction in that. Heck, I'd even be
willing to roll up my sleeves and help if you bought the pizza.

--
Mark Warner
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Re: [BLUG] How cheap can you build a box? - redux

> Don't forget to take power consumption into consideration for
> budgetary and/or environmental concerns, though. Old PIV desktops will
> probably suck a lot of power to give you the same performance as that
> Android tablet, plus the power to run a monitor. (And the expense of a
> monitor; unless explicitly expressed, I doubt those LOTS come with
> display devices.)

About environmental concerns, I would say that reusing old stuff that
would otherwise be trash, saves many more CO2 emissions than what is
needed to build a new machine. At least, that's the case for cars.

http://www.letra.org/spip/article.php?id_article=3567

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Re: [BLUG] How cheap can you build a box? - redux

On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 9:09 AM, David Ernst <david.ernst@davidernst.net> wrote:
> >From Mark Warner
>>You can buy pallets of old P-IIIs for next to nothing on eBay.
>
> Wow.  This was a great tip.
> Mostly I'm averse to used hardware because we want the
> machines to be reliable, nearly identical, and require little labor to
> set up.  Buying lots of nearly identical hardware like this should
> address those concerns.  And the prices are amazing.

Yeah, just buy twice as many as you need, and you'll have enough spare
parts to last you a good long while! They may be old and prone to die
at some point, but I've got an identical one at home I can swap it out
for if any part of it dies (just swap the hard disk over and voila).

Don't forget to take power consumption into consideration for
budgetary and/or environmental concerns, though. Old PIV desktops will
probably suck a lot of power to give you the same performance as that
Android tablet, plus the power to run a monitor. (And the expense of a
monitor; unless explicitly expressed, I doubt those LOTS come with
display devices.)

Just some thoughts.

Simón

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Re: [BLUG] How cheap can you build a box? - redux

Thanks to all of you who replied with suggestions about hardware for
the cheap appliance I'm talking about working on. I thought I'd
summarize the responses for easy reference (for me, my colleague,
and why not share it with you all too!).

>From Mark Krenz:
> Perhaps a Beagle Board would be an option: http://beagleboard.org/

I was so glad I'd asked BLUG about this just from this first
response. These look really cool. My gut feeling is that for our
proposed application there'd be too much labor involved per machine,
plus the end cost is going to be very similar to the EEE Touch screen
thing. But, still, I love knowing about things like this.

>From Chris Colvard
>You might also check out mini-ITX motherboards: http://www.mini-box.com/

Similar to the beagle board, looks extremely cool, makes me dream
about building waterproof devices for all kinds of weird
applications. But, also probably not-quite-cheap-enough and
too-much-labor for my current project.

>From Michael Schultheiss
>K-mart has Android tablets for $179.99: http://bit.ly/dwfUaV

>From Jonathan North Washington
>..Android pads for as low as $129.99: http://bit.ly/93oVKD

These are tempting, the fact that they are cheap and include a touch
screen already make them very attractive. The biggest problem is that
the screen is only 7" big. There are a lot of 7" android devices. I
can't picture them. My droid and other smart phones are down around
4", and I've seen lots of tablet like things at 10" and above (iPad,
my netbook, etc). But, I can't remember seeing anyone using something
7". Any clues?

10" Droid tablets are just starting to be released. There's a fair
amount of buzz about the Advent Vega, which is just being released in
the UK for just under $400 (not yet available in the US). Asus is
apparently on the verge of releasing one too. Hopefully in a few
months there will be lots of options and the prices will come down
even more.

>From Mark Warner
>You can buy pallets of old P-IIIs for next to nothing on eBay.

Wow. This was a great tip. The most questionable part of that
statement, actually, is the P-III part. I found P-IVs much easier,
and they were still amazingly cheap. Apparently the search term to
use is "LOT" as in "LOT OF 10 pentium 4 2.8 GHZ P4, 512 DDR, CDROM"
(starting bid $870, 0 bids so far, ends tomorrow evening). Or "Lot of
34 Dell Optiplex GX260 PC Computer P4 40GB" (Buy it now
$1,359.96.. that's $40 each!! shipping will probably make it a bit more,
but still). Mostly I'm averse to used hardware because we want the
machines to be reliable, nearly identical, and require little labor to
set up. Buying lots of nearly identical hardware like this should
address those concerns. And the prices are amazing.

>From Lord Drachenblut
>This might be a viable option http://www.norhtec.com/

Since the mid '90s I've been continuously surprised that network
computing never took off. Good to know that people are still making
these. Again, I can imagine applications for this that I would love.
However, I don't think it's my current application. I think these
would sit there with no network connection and panic. :)

Thanks VERY MUCH to everyone for your feedback!! It was extremely
helpful.

David

On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 02:33:40PM -0400, David Ernst wrote:
>General question, only tangentially linux related:
>
>I was talking with a colleague about the possibility of building a
>dedicated appliance for a certain application. They'd need to deploy
>a number of them, so they'd like them to be inexpensive. It would use
>a touch screen monitor, not necessarily have any networking, and not
>need impressive computing power. I thought "my netbook could do it",
>but then I thought, my netbook has all kind of things that we don't
>need, like fold-up portability, a webcam, etc. And we definitely
>wouldn't need the latest-greatest processor speed either. Although we
>wouldn't want used equipment either...
>
>So, the question basically comes down to: what's the cheapest system
>you could buy/build that would
>
>* run linux
>* attach to a monitor
>* have usb ports
>
>We really wouldn't need a Hard Drive, a 16G SD card would be fine.
>
>The simple, easy solution would be to get something like this:
>
>http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-ETP1602C-BK-X0163-Touch-Screen-Desktop/dp/B002VY8OS8
>
>so, if we can't significantly beat $380, there's no use. And that's
>including the touchscreen monitor, which will be at least $100, so
>with no monitor it's gotta be down well below $300, preferably below
>$200. But, couldn't you get a motherboard, a not-super-fast CPU, some
>kind of a case, and a USB Interface for less than that? Thoughts?
>
>Another option is an iPad, or preferably a iPad-like Android device,
>which seem to be "soon but not quite yet". Thoughts on those?
>
>David
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[BLUG] Is the future of SMB software/hardware bleak?

Apple discontinued their XServe line this week, I suspect that OS X Server is next.

While it's easy to point fingers at how generally a bad job Apple did in this area, I have to wonder whether this whole area was just viewed as a dying area of the industry in Apple's eyes in general, not worth the resources? There is an argument to be made there, I think...

There has always been a gap between consumer technology and technology designed for large business in both hardware and software. SMB seems to be about creative improvising and flirting with offerings and solutions within both industries. However, things seem to be changing.

Why would a company run a server in-house anymore when they can outsource this and use a VPS hosted elsewhere, run a web-based app/service run somewhere else, outsource services such as email to Google or the like, etc. The emergence of smart phones is surely to even further perpetuate web services as a replacement for in-house operations as companies can contemplate using cheaper devices (i.e. smartphones, the iPad, etc.) as input devices. Even services such as file backup and sharing that were traditionally done in-house seem to be trending towards the cloud.

Virtualization has also been a big part of this as it makes less and less sense to run physical machines dedicated to stuff. I can't think of any fathomable task that any small business owner would want to do that couldn't be virtualized. There is also little reason to run these VMs in-house (especially in companies that can benefit greatly from disk I/O that bests SATA)

As an Apple, Dell, or whomever looks at this market and seeing it getting smaller and smaller every day, is it not just a matter of time before we stick a fork in the idea of small companies running their own servers doing mission critical stuff? The fact that you can buy Mac Mini and Pro servers now makes me think that Apple sees a need within SMB doing very light utilitarian sort of tasks like running file backups or hosting an internal company wiki or something, in which case there really isn't much need for special hardware or software. Is this perhaps prophetic?

--
Joe Auty, NetMusician
NetMusician helps musicians, bands and artists create beautiful, professional, custom designed, career-essential websites that are easy to maintain and to integrate with popular social networks.
www.netmusician.org
joe@netmusician.org

Re: [BLUG] How cheap can you build a box?

Some places have Android pads for as low as $129.99:
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=NBA7400ATP

Though I think this is the least cool of the options.

Btw, if you want an old PIII system, there are ways to get them
literally free. For example, you can check dumpsters around town,
especially at the end of the spring semester.

--
Jonathan

On 28 October 2010 10:02, Michael Schultheiss <schultmc@cinlug.org> wrote:
> David Ernst wrote:
>> Another option is an iPad, or preferably a iPad-like Android device,
>> which seem to be "soon but not quite yet".  Thoughts on those?
>
> K-mart has Android tablets for $179.99 [1]  I've heard mixed reviews
> about that particular tablet but it's a much better price point than the
> iPad.
>
> [1]
> http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_020W023705190001P?prdNo=3&blockNo=3&blockType=G3
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