Thursday, June 18, 2009

Re: [BLUG] Mac owner

Dave Cooley wrote:
> In some ways, Apple screwed up BSD. Things aren't always where they
> should be and don't always behave how you expect them to behave (for the
> BSD user, to an extent; let alone for a Linux user like me).

I wanted to like OSX really badly. I have Apple fanboy friends who had
been telling me how great it is. You could even consider me a NeXT
fanboy, weeping at memories of my mono-slab. I got a used G4 at a
university auction down here in Texas, so I bought a retail version of
10.3 for it. Everything was going well until I got to the command line.
The damn thing wasn't case sensitive. In my mind file, File, and FiLe
are all referring to different things, but not in OSX. This is one
bastardization of FreeBSD (that Apple used to model OSX/Darwin off of)
that I can not accept. Once I found this problem I couldn't take the OS
seriously anymore, it was just a toy.

Sometimes I feel like a Unix grey beard.

Thank you,
Scott Blaydes


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Re: [BLUG] Mac owner

You'll get no guff from me, Mark- my laptop (work-owned) is a Mabook
(currently running OSX and Windows 7), and I've supported Mac users as
part of my job for the last decade (off and on).

In some ways, Apple screwed up BSD. Things aren't always where they
should be and don't always behave how you expect them to behave (for the
BSD user, to an extent; let alone for a Linux user like me).

In other ways, they made a super-nice, super-friendly OS out of BSD.
I'm really pleased in general, and the hardware is pretty nice too. I
LOVE my multi-touch touchpad, and the magnetic power cord connector is
probably the best idea in laptops in years (OK, wi-fi aside anyway).

The minis are nice too. Definitely not a high-performer as Apple
hardware goes, but not bad either- it's a darn fine machine and looks
good in your living room (or conference room, as the case may be).
Pretty affordable (by Apple standards) too.

Cooley

Ana Greavu wrote:
> Hey! I resemble that remark!
>
> The minis are sweet little machines! Sleek, lovely, functional.
>
> A heavily groomed little prancing show-dog.
>
> Rather than the highly variable, hard-working, "I can do anything"
> border collie that a Linux computer is...
>
> Ana
>
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:29 AM, Mark Krenz<mark@slugbug.org> wrote:
>
>> Yesterday I bought a Mac Mini
>>
>> *ducks* (quack!)
>>
>> Seriously though, I've never owned any Apple computer before. I've
>> used them of course, but I think owning one will be interesting. No,
>> its not for my own desktop, its for Suso so that we can support Mac
>> users better and we also decided to use it for our conference room
>> computer.
>>
>> Anyways, its already been interesting to experience computers again in
>> a different way. The Mac is like a little box of happiness and to make
>> you a happy computer user. While Linux may make you a happy computer
>> user, the drive is different and the happiness comes for different
>> reasons. Like meditating, you can't see the happiness from the outside.
>> With the Mac, its like looking at a glowing orb.
>>
>> --
>> Mark Krenz
>> Bloomington Linux Users Group
>> http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
>> _______________________________________________
>> BLUG mailing list
>> BLUG@linuxfan.com
>> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>


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Re: [BLUG] iPhone and Android


  If anyone is really bored, the Indiana code regarding possession of a police radio is IC 35-44-3-12.  Kevin _______________________________________________ BLUG mailing list BLUG@linuxfan.com http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug    
For those who are curious, the following link takes you to IC 35-44-3-12

73,
Walker

http://qts-online.com/gary/indianacode.doc

Re: [BLUG] opera unite

Simón Ruiz wrote:
> And yeah, my protest plan in this democratish capitalistish society is
> to buy an Android phone. We're waiting to see what handsets come out
> over the summer, but both my wife and I are pretty well decided on
> Android as an interface.

I'm pretty decided on an Android phone as well. My current cell phone
contract is up at the end of November but I've concidered paying the
cancellation fee and getting a G1 soon since T-mobile's cheaper than
Verizon and the added benefit of a mostly open phone (versus my current
proprietary phone) outweigh the cost of cancelling my current contract.

I haven't been too impressed with touchscreen only phones - I hope the
G1 is still available in November or whatever other Android phones come
out between now and then also include keyboards (I know the G2 is
supposed to be touch only from what I've seen).
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Re: [BLUG] iPhone and Android

Steven Black wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:11:07AM +0900, Ben Shewmaker wrote:
>
>> Also, if they wanted, couldn't Apple allow 3rd party apps in some
>> fashion, but where it warns the user that installing an unofficial
>> program may do damage to their phone? Or maybe I should get an android
>> phone and support the competition. . .
>>
>
> If you ignore the "security" issue that people float around, there
> is also one very good reason for Apple to not do that: Market Share.
> Right now, they can have offical Apple-produced applications and stop
> third-party applications in those fields from the get-go.
>
> And truthfully, unoffical leaks of how to unlock your iPhone *is*
> Apple's way of allowing 3rd party applications while also stating it is
> an unofficial program that may do damage to their phone, and that by
> simply preparing to install it you are voiding the warranty.
>
> Truthfully, the Android platform isn't all that open. It has an open
> development environment, but it isn't open in the sense that you can't
> replace any product that ships with it with a third-party product. You
> can not, in any real sense, "use the product how you see fit." This is
> less a matter of security than it is a matter that the US government
> controls the airways.
>
Every time I install an app on my Nokia S60 phone, it wants me to check
the certificate the app is signed with. I can make it allow untrusted
certificates, but I've never found an app that was unsigned in the first
place. I cringe when I install Google's (closed-source) mail and maps
applications, but the utility outweighs the fear. I really should get
into S60 development (it's open source now!) and write my own. It would
be a good exercise in both open source dev and embedded dev.
> And the US government *does* control the airways. In particular the FCC.
> In the common case, the standard Internet wireless protocols can use
> additional channels outside of the US. In the US, some of the spectrum
> is used by the US military. In another case, simply listening to some
> radio channels is restricted, as you can not legally listen to police
> channels in a car.
>
I wonder why the government hasn't moved to encrypting the radio traffic
it needs kept secret. Digital two-way radio is a mature technology and
shouldn't be that much more expensive (though I can see why it would
be). Encryption would be the next logical step. You can't keep people
from listening to the airwaves any more than you can keep people from
reading phone system repair manuals (blue boxes, anyone?).
> Now, imagine a person has a simple phone-sized device that can
> truthfully freely access the airways. Police channels via your bluetooth
> headset? Some cell phones actually include AM/FM radios. It isn't that
> far-fetched. Ignoring the military frequencies, you also have purposes
> for such a device which could include simple cell phone jamming. If
> anyone could have an easy hand-held cell phone jammer then not only
> would it be common for folks to have them in movie theaters, but
> virtually any criminal worth their salt would have one.
>
The movie theaters and prisons are very eager to have their own
cell-phone jammers. The problem is the jamming signal leaks and affects
the service of innocent bystanders. Keeping that problem under control
is rightfully under the FCC's charter.
I think movie theaters should be built with materials that passively
block the cell signal, but that is probably prohibitively expensive.
Also, it could be life-threatening if a doctor was on-call while
watching a movie (but you shouldn't have plans when you're on-call).
Prisons are an even trickier case, because law enforcement wants to be
able to tap the illicit phone calls. If they block the signal, they lose
a good source of intelligence.
> This is why I'm actually headed toward getting an open
> mobile-internet-device connected via bluetooth to a closed-platform cell
> phone.
>
My Nokia n810 tethers to my Nokia cellphone with minimal configuration.
I'm still working on connecting my laptop to the cellphone via the USB
cable, but I'm close. I'll post about that when I get it working.
> I want a fully open hand-held device, but it does not have to be the
> same device that uses the cell-phone network, and I do not require my
> wireless device's firmware to be open.
>
I've heard good things about the Freerunner. If you do need a completely
open device, that would be it.

-Barry
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Re: [BLUG] iPhone and Android (was: opera unite)

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Steven Black <blacks@indiana.edu> wrote:
> And the US government *does* control the airways. In particular the FCC.
> In the common case, the standard Internet wireless protocols can use
> additional channels outside of the US. In the US, some of the spectrum
> is used by the US military. In another case, simply listening to some
> radio channels is restricted, as you can not legally listen to police
> channels in a car.

Actually, it's the laws of the state of Indiana that make it illegal
to listen to a police scanner under certain circumstances, not the FCC
rules. Most US states do not have this type of restriction on police
scanners in cars. To get technical about it, it's a misdemeanor in
Indiana to possess a device capable of receiving law enforcement
frequencies that is capable of being used in a vehicle or as a
pedestrian; an actual vehicle is not required! Nor is having the
police channels programmed into the scanner required in order to be in
violation of the law. Not that they will tell you this if you go to
buy a scanner at Radio Shack. Most police officers don't know this
either.

There are exceptions to this of course. Amateur radio operators are
exempt from this law, for example, which is why I can legally have a
radio in my car that can receive police frequencies, so long as I'm
not committing some other crime.

Here's an interesting question though: I have a scanner at home that I
stream to the web. If someone else is listening to my feed in their
car on their Android phone over wifi, are they in violation of the
law? Nobody really knows for sure.

There are federal laws making it illegal to monitor certain
communications, such as cell phones, pagers, and encrypted stuff, but
police frequencies are not listed as restricted among the federal
regulations.

If anyone is really bored, the Indiana code regarding possession of a
police radio is IC 35-44-3-12.

Kevin
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Re: [BLUG] iPhone and Android (was: opera unite)

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:11:07AM +0900, Ben Shewmaker wrote:
> Also, if they wanted, couldn't Apple allow 3rd party apps in some
> fashion, but where it warns the user that installing an unofficial
> program may do damage to their phone? Or maybe I should get an android
> phone and support the competition. . .

If you ignore the "security" issue that people float around, there
is also one very good reason for Apple to not do that: Market Share.
Right now, they can have offical Apple-produced applications and stop
third-party applications in those fields from the get-go.

And truthfully, unoffical leaks of how to unlock your iPhone *is*
Apple's way of allowing 3rd party applications while also stating it is
an unofficial program that may do damage to their phone, and that by
simply preparing to install it you are voiding the warranty.

Truthfully, the Android platform isn't all that open. It has an open
development environment, but it isn't open in the sense that you can't
replace any product that ships with it with a third-party product. You
can not, in any real sense, "use the product how you see fit." This is
less a matter of security than it is a matter that the US government
controls the airways.

And the US government *does* control the airways. In particular the FCC.
In the common case, the standard Internet wireless protocols can use
additional channels outside of the US. In the US, some of the spectrum
is used by the US military. In another case, simply listening to some
radio channels is restricted, as you can not legally listen to police
channels in a car.

Now, imagine a person has a simple phone-sized device that can
truthfully freely access the airways. Police channels via your bluetooth
headset? Some cell phones actually include AM/FM radios. It isn't that
far-fetched. Ignoring the military frequencies, you also have purposes
for such a device which could include simple cell phone jamming. If
anyone could have an easy hand-held cell phone jammer then not only
would it be common for folks to have them in movie theaters, but
virtually any criminal worth their salt would have one.

This is why I'm actually headed toward getting an open
mobile-internet-device connected via bluetooth to a closed-platform cell
phone.

I want a fully open hand-held device, but it does not have to be the
same device that uses the cell-phone network, and I do not require my
wireless device's firmware to be open.

Cheers,

--
Steven Black <blacks@indiana.edu> / KeyID: 8596FA8E
Fingerprint: 108C 089C EFA4 832C BF07 78C2 DE71 5433 8596 FA8E

Re: [BLUG] opera unite

On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 10:11 PM, Ben Shewmaker<ben@shewbox.org> wrote:
> Also, if they wanted, couldn't Apple allow 3rd party apps in some fashion,
> but where it warns the user that installing an unofficial program may do
> damage to their phone?  Or maybe I should get an android phone and support
> the competition. . .

They're as likely to do that as they are of letting you know all the
other convenient places you can get music for your iPod.

I seriously doubt Apple's main motivation in locking down *any* of
their devices is the welfare and security of their end-users.

And yeah, my protest plan in this democratish capitalistish society is
to buy an Android phone. We're waiting to see what handsets come out
over the summer, but both my wife and I are pretty well decided on
Android as an interface.

Simón

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Re: [BLUG] Mac owner

Hey! I resemble that remark!

The minis are sweet little machines! Sleek, lovely, functional.

A heavily groomed little prancing show-dog.

Rather than the highly variable, hard-working, "I can do anything"
border collie that a Linux computer is...

Ana

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:29 AM, Mark Krenz<mark@slugbug.org> wrote:
>
>  Yesterday I bought a Mac Mini
>
>  *ducks*  (quack!)
>
>  Seriously though, I've never owned any Apple computer before. I've
> used them of course, but I think owning one will be interesting. No,
> its not for my own desktop, its for Suso so that we can support Mac
> users better and we also decided to use it for our conference room
> computer.
>
>  Anyways, its already been interesting to experience computers again in
> a different way. The Mac is like a little box of happiness and to make
> you a happy computer user.  While Linux may make you a happy computer
> user, the drive is different and the happiness comes for different
> reasons. Like meditating, you can't see the happiness from the outside.
> With the Mac, its like looking at a glowing orb.
>
> --
> Mark Krenz
> Bloomington Linux Users Group
> http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
> _______________________________________________
> BLUG mailing list
> BLUG@linuxfan.com
> http://mailman.cs.indiana.edu/mailman/listinfo/blug
>

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[BLUG] Mac owner

Yesterday I bought a Mac Mini

*ducks* (quack!)

Seriously though, I've never owned any Apple computer before. I've
used them of course, but I think owning one will be interesting. No,
its not for my own desktop, its for Suso so that we can support Mac
users better and we also decided to use it for our conference room
computer.

Anyways, its already been interesting to experience computers again in
a different way. The Mac is like a little box of happiness and to make
you a happy computer user. While Linux may make you a happy computer
user, the drive is different and the happiness comes for different
reasons. Like meditating, you can't see the happiness from the outside.
With the Mac, its like looking at a glowing orb.

--
Mark Krenz
Bloomington Linux Users Group
http://www.bloomingtonlinux.org/
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